Grandfathers byf 42

[kolja]

Hi from Croatia everybody,

It is nice to see such a great number of people interested in this fine weapon, honoring and preserving it, as well as the history that happened around it.

I have my late granfather's WW2 p08. The pistol itself was captured by my grandfather, or rather given to him, since he was only 13 years old, fighting the nazis in Yugoslavia, now Croatia, as a guerilla fighter - Tito's partisan.

(I'm not sure how he get it but I hope he didn't killed someone at that age to get it anyhow. Most probabbly it was given to him by his older brother who was high ranking officer of the partisans)

The pistol has been stored in humid conditions for a 2 years (my mom hid it in a basement), and it caught brown rust film all over.

I've cleaned it with soap, oil and cloth, dried it and oiled it.

The mechanism and the barrel are in (relatively) very good condition, but the surface shows pitting and corrosion.

I would like to get rid of all the small spots and maybe replace a grip.

The goal is to preserve it for my grandchildren, of course.

Please look at the pictures and see if you can recommend what to do with it?

I'm not going to sell it for sure, but just wondering of its worth. Can you please estimate the price as well?

Thank you!

[mrerick]

Hello Kolja, and welcome to the forum!

Even though it was damaged in the storage you described, you have what looks like a Luger in it's original finish.

Luger collectors value pistols that are as close to original factory condition as possible.

That means that the less that is done to a Luger, the better!

The original grips on your pistol are particularly valuable. This type of Luger has been called a "black widow" because of the black bakelite grips. This is a marketing term started many years ago to make these more attractive to buyers. It worked, and a demand developed for this variation of Luger.

Your byf 42 Luger s/n 9416h was made toward the end of Luger production by Mauser, just before they moved over to P.38 pistols.

It is normal for some red oxide to develop over many years of storage. The areas that are pitted happened because this was allowed to develop too long without applying preserving gun oil and cleaning.

It's possible to remove this red oxide rust by using an oiled #0000 steel wool or bronze wool gently. If you don't have experience doing this (you must use good judgement and not rub too much) just keep the pistol properly clean and oiled.

Have you disassembled your pistol to see if it is all matching (the numbers will all be "16" or "9416" on the pistol?

Be very careful if you remove the grips. The left grip should be just barely lifted off it's mount. These break easily near the safety lever base if they are lifted too far before sliding them off the frame.

My last thought is that you should not try and fire the pistol. It will probably work fine, but if you break a numbered part, the historic and financial value will be reduced. If all matching, it is probably worth between $1300 and $1600 to a collector in the USA. You can see retail pricing at websites like simpsonltd.com . Those prices would reflect insurance replacement value.

Keep it clean and oiled. Store it in a dry place. Use the silicone impregnated woven gun socks to protect it from moisture.

You have a fine piece of history - the history of your family and your country!

Congratulations...

Marc

[kolja]

Hi mrerick, thank you for your post, it is very informative. However, I would like to know a little bit more about the pistol before I begin to restore it. Hopefuly, it seems to me, all the info I would need is within this forum.

Once more, I must say it's a shame it was stored inproperly, because, I remember, other then for its usage in the WW2, the pistol was conserved properly for a long time - since 1945. Unfortunately as the Independance war started here in Croatia (1990) the pistol was taken out from the closet, all greased up and shiny, i remember quite vividly. It was ment to be used for our family protection if need be. Thank God, we didn't have to use it.

However, unconserved, stored in humid basement it rusted.

You can imagine, this gun is so much more then a collectors item to me, so I will try my best not to ruin it restoring it.

As for the condition of the gun, other than outher surface rust, I must say again it is, fortunately, in good condition.

The mechanism is flawless, the barell too. I will disassemble it once more and check for matching part numbers. I know for sure that it was not serviced after the war, and since it was then (in 1945) a new gun, I doubt any part was changed while with its original owner or later during the WW2.

Regarding the grip plates, they are not in very good shape it seems to me, especially the left one - it looks partialy melted. Also I'm not sure it is made of bakelite, because it is softer then i would expected form bakelite, also, if I remember correctly, bakelite does not melt. What do you think?

Do you have some tips how to clean checkered (grip) surface of the rear toggle link (and similar)? I've tried thoothbrush dipped in oil with results you can see in the picture - it is still brown - the whole gun was like that when I've found it. (And smelly too :>))

The magazine itself is not of the same serial number like the pistol, and it's lower part is made of alluminium, not plastic, so I think my grandfather or even the original owner exchanged the magazine. (I've seen some pictures of the "black widow" with black plastic magazine.) What do you think?

Ad finally, do you think there might be some records of the gun's history surviving the ww2 aftermath, regarding the person the gun was issued to? It would be interested to know whose it was originally.

Thank you!



Also I have a holster and some bullets, some even from the WW2.

I will take pictures of disassembly and other parts and post it here if it is OK with you.

[sheepherder]

Left grip does look pretty ragged...I don't think Bakelite would deteriorate like that...but plastic would...if it were exposed to noxious chemicals, like bore cleaner or some petroleum based cleaning fluids...maybe even gun oil...

[kolja]

It is bakelite. Some chemical did it I think.

Also, if you can se on the picture, the barrel is very clean, no corrosion.

[kolja]

Here are the bullets - '42 - '45

I wonder if they still work... Guess I'll never know...

[Lugerdoc]

Kolja, I'd suggest using a brass brisled brush to clean the checked toggle knobs with some bore cleaner. TH

[kolja]

Do you think it would help to dip the entire disassembled gun, minus the bakelite pads, into some fluid and leave for a week or two before brushing/cleaning with wire?

It is the tradition here to soak in diesel oil, do you reccomend something else?

K.

[Douglas Jr.]

Kolja,

I don't think your gun is damaged to the extent to deserve a restoration.
The probability of anything goes wrong and you end up ruining its value as a collectable item (not to mention its emotional attachment) is much higher than any improvement you may have.

The marks are clear and the edges are crisp. As far as I can see the rusting was superficial. I won't put it in any solvent or something like this but it could erase the paint on the "GESICHERT" inscription. Concerning the grips, with some luck you can find wartime grips still for sale, although expensive.

Enjoy your Luger as it is.

Regards,

Douglas.

[John Sabato]

Use 0000 or even 00000 steel wool and a good gun oil and rub VERY lightly to remove any active rust.

I would clean the grips with a good soap, perhaps dishwashing liquid soap, and a stiff toothbrush to get them as clean as possible without damaging them.

Then just keep the gun properly lubricated for your climate to prevent future rust. The gun will be preserved and ready to defend the future generations of your family if ever the need should arise...

Thanks for sharing the photos of your Luger and it's family history with the forum.

[alanint]

A good, soft brass brush, soaked in oil is the best way to clean the checkering on the gun's toggles.

[kolja]

Thanks for the instructions!

I will update this thread if I need more info.