Replace Matching Parts Before Shooting?

[Kes1990]

Greetings,

New here and looked through shooting forums, but was unable to find anything. Wanted one of these since I first shot one at 8 years old. I finally got one at Show of Shows last weekend at age 29. All matching byf 42 black bakelite rig, year correct black holster, 2 matching bakelite mags. One of the reasons I love these, is the mechanisms, I like to shoot. However, i realize this is a collector piece. My question is three part:
1. What parts commonly break or become damaged with use, that i can swap out with reproduction/spare parts so that when firing I dont risk breaking matching parts.
2. Could i please have some exact links of what to buy, especially spring wise?
3. I have heard it said that parts are pretty gun specific, and that adding non matching small parts can damage your gun, is this true? Is replacing small parts worth it?

[hayhugh]

[QUOTE i realize this is a collector piece][/QUOTE] You might want to keep this as a collector and buy a "shooter".....

[mrerick]

Welcome to the forum.

If it's a collector grade gun, treat it that way. I don't shoot my collectible pistols. Many people do, and some experience parts breakage.

We have an FAQ you can download (follow the link at the top of the page) that you'll find useful. It discusses parts breakage incidence in one of the topics.

That said, welcome to the forum. You probably won't stop at just one Luger. You've got what sounds like a good one. Post some pictures and let members here have a look at it.

The Luger was an expensive pistol to manufacture. Part of the reason is that many of the parts are hand fitted. That's why parts are numbered (they weren't thinking of collectors back in 1942...). If you buy a bunch of parts, count on some work to make them fit and function properly.

These are precision handguns, and getting them "right" is as much an art, based on experience, as anything. Don't mess with good or great...

[Major Tom]

I have what I call a shooter grade DWM caliber 30 luger. It's not real pretty, a lot of honest wear for a 1920's pistol. But, all parts visible and internal do match except of course the magazine which I use a MecGar one. I don't stress over parts breakage, maybe I should, but I enjoy shooting it a lot and have not had any issues. I once owned a 1939 Mauser in pristine condition. I sold it cause I like to shoot my guns, not just look at them.
BTW, my avatar shows my "bicycle gun". LOL

[Dwight Gruber]

No matter which parts you substitute to avoid breakage, its always the part you don't replace which breaks. Shoot a shooter. Don't shoot a matching collectible.


--Dwight

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

No matter which parts you substitute to avoid breakage, its always the part you don't replace which breaks. Shoot a shooter. Don't shoot a matching collectible.


--Dwight

Mr. Murphy says so...or so they say.

I collect shootables and don't shoot collectibles (much).

[4 Scale]

I actually tried the strategy of shooting collectibles while replacing parts more likely to break such as the toggle train, firing pin, hold open, grips, toggle pin and so forth. It's a great theoretical strategy that did not work for me in practice.

When you replace all those parts, you're now not shooting a collectible, but a parts gun. Plus, even replacing those parts I discovered I was still very aware of the threat of breaking a numbered part. Shooting a Luger should be enjoyable, and concern for parts breakage while shooting makes it less enjoyable.

I had reasonable luck, no metal parts ever broke. I did break a chip on a grip near the safety due to recoil. Twenty minutes of looking for the chip on my hands and knees and repairing the grip cured me of my interest in shooting collectibles.

So, I bought a shooter. I enjoyed having a dedicated shooter so much that I ended up with several. For me, getting the shooters to run flawlessly and learning more about the Luger action during that process was an unexpected benefit. I found dissassembly of shooters fun, in part because there is no penalty if the finish is marred. So, all in all my own experience is if you want to shoot, buy a shooter or even several.

[gunbugs]

I personally find it "difficult" to have a gun I'm not going to shoot. I've accumulated about 11 Lugers so far, and am of the mindset to shoot all of them, although not often. I've said before, that I replace the extractor and firing pin with non-matching spares before I head to the range, as those are the most likely parts to fail. If something major breaks, so be it. It just doesn't make sense, for me anyway, to have guns laying about that aren't going to get used, at least once in a while. I've got a Browning M-2 50 cal machine gun that's worth about 35 to 40k, it goes to the range and gets used periodically, about a thousand round a year. It's what I bought it for. I'm personally willing to accept the risk. Others are not. I think most P-08's will far outlast their owners, even if they are shot fairly regularly. If I'm going to collect stuff to look at, I'll collect antique currency. But, that's just me. To each their own.

[Bill_in_VA]

Originally Posted by gunbugs

I personally find it "difficult" to have a gun I'm not going to shoot. I've accumulated about 11 Lugers so far, and am of the mindset to shoot all of them, although not often. I've said before, that I replace the extractor and firing pin with non-matching spares before I head to the range, as those are the most likely parts to fail. If something major breaks, so be it. It just doesn't make sense, for me anyway, to have guns laying about that aren't going to get used, at least once in a while. I've got a Browning M-2 50 cal machine gun that's worth about 35 to 40k, it goes to the range and gets used periodically, about a thousand round a year. It's what I bought it for. I'm personally willing to accept the risk. Others are not. I think most P-08's will far outlast their owners, even if they are shot fairly regularly. If I'm going to collect stuff to look at, I'll collect antique currency. But, that's just me. To each their own.

“Risk” and “value” are mutually exclusive as far as I’m concerned. I own a lot of guns and shoot a lot of guns, including several transferrable machine guns, but I don’t shoot everything I own. It’s not because of the relative value of the gun; my transferrable Thompson is worth more than any ten of my Lugers yet I shoot it regularly. Likewise, out of the couple dozen Lugers I own I have only three that I consider shooters - a nickle-plated 1915 DWM, a grossly mismatched AE, and an import-stamped byf42. I can’t tell the difference between shooting my 1913 Erfurt and my 1913 DWM so what’s gained by shooting both (beyond saying I’ve shot both)?

It’s only original once, and if I break a numbered part, it’s a huge pain searching for a replacement and even if I eventually able to find a matching replacement, it’s not the same to me. Shoot the shooters and collect the collectibles.
My .02

[DonVoigt]

I am blessed, I have too many guns to shoot them all; though I could and would shoot any one of them if I wanted too. If shooting "everything" were made a "rule", I'd have to give some up.

All the reasons above for shooting or not are good sound advice/reasoning/choices.

So the "bottom line" is do what you want- after all, they are "yours". Enough lugers and other collectibles have been "preserved" for posterity already. JMHO

We all have likely "lost" more $$ on other endeavors or investments than if we "broke" a matching part on a luger.

[kurusu]

Life's too short.

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

I actually tried the strategy of shooting collectibles while replacing parts more likely to break such as the toggle train, firing pin, hold open, grips, toggle pin and so forth...

Originally Posted by Gunbugs

…I've said before, that I replace the extractor and firing pin with non-matching spares before I head to the range, as those are the most likely parts to fail...

Everybody read this http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...t=broken+parts Your estimation of which parts break is wrong.

In addition, these guns are hand-fitted in final assembly. Replacing parts may mean the pistol won't function at all.

Shoot a shooter. Don't shoot a matching collectible.

--Dwight

[HerrKaiser]

I don't like to own weapons that I do not shoot at least once. I personally give my matching guns a one time trip to the range, and they get 1 or 2 mags to ensure function. After that they get a "white glove" level of cleaning, then they're off limits for good.

Yeah yeah, I know that it only takes one shot to break a part, but I am willing to take that risk. See above for the reason. As much as I would hate to see someone break a part by repeatedly shooting a collectible gun, these guns were made to shoot in the first place. It is not my place to tell people how to enjoy themselves and their own property, no matter how risky or stupid that may be depending on the value of it. Just my opinion which the first amendment gives me the right to have, and gives you the right to ignore or ridicule as you please.

[gunbugs]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Everybody read this http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...t=broken+parts Your estimation of which parts break is wrong.

In addition, these guns are hand-fitted in final assembly. Replacing parts may mean the pistol won't function at all.

Shoot a shooter. Don't shoot a matching collectible.

--Dwight

Many of the parts listed in the survey have no bearing on shooting them, such as the takedown lever spring, (I doubt that spring is broken from firing the pistol.) Many of the examples of pistols shown in the thread are obviously poorly maintained, and may have or did have over pressure ammo, or some other bad ammo shot through them. I've never had a problem using my replacement parts in the pistols I have, although your mileage may vary. I recognize that most parts on a P-08 should be correctly fitted, and I have done my best to do so. I've been a full and part time gunsmith for over 30 years now, and think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation. I'll continue to buy and shoot nice guns, as I don't care for "beaters". I like to own, and use, "nice stuff". I guess I just don't have the fear other folks do.

[ithacaartist]

The heat death of the Universe is probably the only thing that will solve this dilemma once and for all.

If you decide that swapping out numbered parts before shooting is a good thing, the ultimate version would be to replace them all--by getting a shooter!

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by gunbugs

...Many of the examples of pistols shown in the thread are obviously poorly maintained, and may have or did have over pressure ammo, or some other bad ammo shot through them...

A conclusion which cannot be drawn from the information presented.

The cavalier willingness of people here willing to risk collectable-quality Lugers is truly a cause for concern and dismay. Remember, ultimately you are only custodian of these pistols. If you destroy their collectibility it is forever, for all the collectors to come.

Shoot a shooter. Don't shoot a matching collectible.

--Dwight

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

...If you decide that swapping out numbered parts before shooting is a good thing, the ultimate version would be to replace them all--by getting a shooter!

Excellent.

--Dwight

[DonVoigt]

"The cavalier willingness of people here willing to risk collectable-quality Lugers is truly a cause for concern and dismay. Remember, ultimately you are only custodian of these pistols. If you destroy their collectibility it is forever, for all the collectors to come."

It is not reasonable to assume or attempt to "require" that collectibles not be shot, JMHO.
We cannot "save" them all. That said, a truly "rare" pistol does deserve some respect; it is just that all matching lugers are not rare enough to become wall hangers, safe queens, or items of investment and not enjoyment.

Besides, some "collectors" can do more damage attempting to disassemble a pistol than shooting one will. I expect we have all seen the "evidence" of such failed attempts.

Dave from Ithaca has reduced the problem to its root- just "replace" or "substitute" another pistol.
Personally I enjoy shooting my shooters and have half a dozen in various calibers and configurations at any given time.
I'm missing my shooting artillery now- the one that HerrKaiser bought from me.

Freedom to choose!!!!

[Dwight Gruber]

Not a requirement. Just reproach.


--Dwight

[HerrKaiser]

"I'm missing my shooting artillery now- the one that HerrKaiser bought from me."

Don,
For what it is worth, I have been making sure that she is getting exercise and being well cared for. Just put another 50 rounds through on Saturday followed by a thorough cleaning. I really enjoy shooting it with the Odin stock, hopefully a GT drum to follow once I graduate and get my "big boy" job...and paychecks that come with.