Two tone finish?

[Blockhead]

I'm considering buying the following Luger that appears to have all matching parts including the magazine. However, a friend of mine who collects German militaria pointed out to me that the finish should be consistent on all the parts, but to him it looks two-toned. From the pictures I have I think he is referencing the toggle compared to the receiver/frame. Is it possible for a Luger to look that way and still have an original finish? Any other thoughts on this pistol?

[bmwr12]

I have a artillery Luger that is worn in a similar way. I would assume it was kept in a holster or the top and bottom were stored in 2 different places.

[ithacaartist]

This color differential occurs once in a while. The parts that have taken on a purplish hue are referred to as "plum". Slight metallurgical differences among the different parts, variations in time and temp of their dip finish application are said to result in plum colored parts.

I own several Erma pistols, and on at least two of them, the rear toggle links are plum, so this phenomenon is not restricted to Lugers. I think I've even seen pics of 1911s that have plum effect on some parts.

I'm curious about the chamber "date"; what's up with two digits?

Anyway, quite a handsome pistol, there, nice honest condition...

[bmwr12]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

This color differential occurs once in a while. The parts that have taken on a purplish hue are referred to as "plum". Slight metallurgical differences among the different parts, variations in time and temp of their dip finish application are said to result in plum colored parts.

I own several Erma pistols, and on at least two of them, the rear toggle links are plum, so this phenomenon is not restricted to Lugers. I think I've even seen pics of 1911s that have plum effect on some parts.

I'm curious about the chamber "date"; what's up with two digits?

Anyway, quite a handsome pistol, there, nice honest condition...

1940-42 lugers only had the last 2 digits of the year right?

[tharpo]

41 byf and 42 byf had two digits. 1940 had the full date.

[DavidJayUden]

From the photos provided I'm seeing nothing that scares me away on this one. David is correct on the "plum" color occasionally seen, but never quited explained, on this period of gun.
I'd like to see close-ups of the mag. numbers, but so far it looks OK.
But listen to others here because I'm a (relatively) new guy.
dju

[Dwight Gruber]

The "plum" coloration is sometimes seen on firearms (not just Lugers) which have been salt-blued. It is the result of chemical contamination or temperature variation in the salt-blue cheical bath.

"Pluming" is not the result of wear or differential storage. Artillery Lugers were originally rust-blued, and so not subject to this phenomenon. Plum-color parts on an artillery Luger are an indication that the parts have been reblued in a salt-bluing solution.

--Dwight

[DavidJayUden]

So Dwight, if one of these later guns that are partially plum colored are correctly refinished, salt blued, with all the parts together in the same bath for the same time, would they re-emerge as different colors?
dju

[Dwight Gruber]

Most likely there would be no plum color.

--Dwight

[DavidJayUden]

Thanks.
dju

[John Sabato]

I can concur with my friend Dwight that the plum color occurs as a result of inadequate heat combined with bluing salt solution mixture during the blueing process. This phenomenon is frequently seen in the final production years for the P.38. Not so often on Lugers. In the early war years, this type of finish would have resulted in rejection or reprocessing of the parts until they met the finish standards. Later in the war, Germany could not devote that kind of production inefficiency as they were desparate to produce as many guns that could shoot as possible.

There will always be some variation in the blue color even on "correct" guns between the sideplate, barrel and toggle parts because of the differences in the metallurgy and hardness required of these parts.

[Blockhead]

Thanks guys, you are always a great and accessible source of info.

With the following holster, what do you guys think the value of the package would be?

[alanint]

Who made it? What year?What does the inside look like? It looks brown dyed black.

You really need to provide much more detail for an evaluation!

[Blockhead]

This is what I got from the seller: "Markings on the back say po8 waffenant stamp and above it looks like a triangle or number 4 tu and number 41"

The holster is in excellent condition with no damage.

[SIGP2101]

Plum coloring of metal will occur in two different scenarios during salt blueing process.

1. Salt blueing heat hardened steel.
2. Salt blueing to hot. Water content% has to be monitored all of the time during process. Temperature is directly dependent on water%, color directly depends on temperature.
There is a third condition as well but very rarely occurs and it will only happen if during process manufacturer run out of appropriate metal pickling solution and substitute must be used. Color outcome in that case is unpredictable since salt bath and neutralising bath is too late to adjust or too expensive or process disruptive.

[DavidJayUden]

Off the top of my head I'd place a value on the gun and holster in the $1400-$1600 range, but add or subtract maybe 15% depending on who is buying, where it is sold, local market, etc.
dju

[Railsplitter]

Kinda partial to the plum color myself.