Artillery Luger questions - pics

backblast · 10-28-2008, 01:26 PM

Hi everyone, I recently came across the forum while researching a friend's artillery Luger. Would love to get your expert opinion on it. I've attached pics below. It has been in my friend's family for some time but I don't recall the whole story on it. From the little research I've done I can tell that it's a DWM artillery luger although I can't tell the year. I can tell that the barrel doesn't match the frame, but the sights appear to match the barrel and the action parts match the frame (mostly?). I could use some help deciphering:

- Year of manufacture of the frame and barrel assembly
- The meaning of "19" stamped behind the DWM marking
- The meaning of "76" stamped on the rear of the action (does this mean it's a non-matching part?)
- The proof marks on the frame and barrel

Any other observations in areas I didn't touch on would be welcome. My friend does not have the stock or drum mag and may have the holster but is not sure. Pics below. I am quite familiar with pistols but not lugers so any and all help appreciated!

Edward Tinker · 10-28-2008, 01:34 PM

welcome to the forum Andy, I am at work, and since you didn't post pictures here on the forum, they are blocked by my work.

if there is NOT a 4 digit number on the top of the receiver, i.e. 1914, 1915, 1916 or 1918, then it was not a war time artillery, but probably a commericial 1920's.

What is the serial number (since I can't see pics)?

The last two of the serial number would be in BOTH locations you said above; so yes, most likely mismatched rear toggle.

Ed

alanint · 10-28-2008, 01:55 PM

Ed,

There are views of everything BUT the top of the receiver. The side of the receiver above the take down lever has a crown over N and a "Made in Germany" stamp

John Sabato · 10-28-2008, 02:18 PM

PLEASE read the sticky post in the New Collectors Forum regarding the posting of Photos here on the forum...

George Anderson · 10-28-2008, 02:29 PM

It appears to be a 1920 commercial import that someone has added an artillery barrel and sight assembly to. No collector value at all.

backblast · 10-28-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Sabato
PLEASE read the sticky post in the New Collectors Forum regarding the posting of Photos here on the forum...

Thanks John, I have updated the photos.

Quote:

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
if there is NOT a 4 digit number on the top of the receiver, i.e. 1914, 1915, 1916 or 1918, then it was not a war time artillery, but probably a commericial 1920's.

What is the serial number (since I can't see pics)?

The last two of the serial number would be in BOTH locations you said above; so yes, most likely mismatched rear toggle.

The front of the receiver is blank, no number. Pics are updated now so you can see the serial number.

Quote:

Originally posted by George Anderson
It appears to be a 1920 commercial import that someone has added an artillery barrel and sight assembly to. No collector value at all.

I thought that might be a possibility...is there a way to determine whether a particular receiver started life as an artillery?

George Anderson · 10-28-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by backblast
Thanks John, I have updated the photos.

I thought that might be a possibility...is there a way to determine whether a particular receiver started life as an artillery?

Yes, it would have a notch machined into the top foremost part of the receiver that allowed the rear sight to be lowered fully. This is not fool proof as almost all Erfurt receivers after 1914 have the notch but Erfurt made no artilleries during the years 1916-1918.

backblast · 10-30-2008, 06:18 PM

I was able to find photos of other people's pistols that clearly show the notch, and mine definitely does not have the notch.

Any idea of the value as it stands? The finish is very nice, it's got a bit of a patina on the frame but the barrel has very little wear on the finish and there's no pitting. It's not a bad shooter either.

Edward Tinker · 10-30-2008, 07:10 PM

$800-$1000 if I had it on a gun show table, it might sell for around $1100, but I bet it would mostly likely sell in todays market around $950 to $1000

Ed

10-28-2008, 01:26 PM	#1
backblast New User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Artillery Luger questions - pics Hi everyone, I recently came across the forum while researching a friend's artillery Luger. Would love to get your expert opinion on it. I've attached pics below. It has been in my friend's family for some time but I don't recall the whole story on it. From the little research I've done I can tell that it's a DWM artillery luger although I can't tell the year. I can tell that the barrel doesn't match the frame, but the sights appear to match the barrel and the action parts match the frame (mostly?). I could use some help deciphering: - Year of manufacture of the frame and barrel assembly - The meaning of "19" stamped behind the DWM marking - The meaning of "76" stamped on the rear of the action (does this mean it's a non-matching part?) - The proof marks on the frame and barrel Any other observations in areas I didn't touch on would be welcome. My friend does not have the stock or drum mag and may have the holster but is not sure. Pics below. I am quite familiar with pistols but not lugers so any and all help appreciated!

10-28-2008, 01:34 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	welcome to the forum Andy, I am at work, and since you didn't post pictures here on the forum, they are blocked by my work. if there is NOT a 4 digit number on the top of the receiver, i.e. 1914, 1915, 1916 or 1918, then it was not a war time artillery, but probably a commericial 1920's. What is the serial number (since I can't see pics)? The last two of the serial number would be in BOTH locations you said above; so yes, most likely mismatched rear toggle. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-28-2008, 02:18 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	PLEASE read the sticky post in the New Collectors Forum regarding the posting of Photos here on the forum... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-30-2008, 07:10 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	$800-$1000 if I had it on a gun show table, it might sell for around $1100, but I bet it would mostly likely sell in todays market around $950 to $1000 Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-28-2008, 01:55 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Ed, There are views of everything BUT the top of the receiver. The side of the receiver above the take down lever has a crown over N and a "Made in Germany" stamp

10-28-2008, 02:29 PM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	It appears to be a 1920 commercial import that someone has added an artillery barrel and sight assembly to. No collector value at all.

10-30-2008, 06:18 PM	#8
backblast New User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was able to find photos of other people's pistols that clearly show the notch, and mine definitely does not have the notch. Any idea of the value as it stands? The finish is very nice, it's got a bit of a patina on the frame but the barrel has very little wear on the finish and there's no pitting. It's not a bad shooter either.