Magazine identification, now with pictures

[alamar]

Hello all!

Popping back in after a bit of an absence to see whats up.

I am having some challenges in matching up my Lugers with my various magazines. I am not talking about a serialized magazine (have one though) that matches the pistol. I mean "this mag with these markings with a wooden bottom etc" goes with this particular 1937 dated pistol or what have you. I could have sworn there was a table/chart around to help with this but maybe my memory is fogged and it was for P-38 pistols and mags. Or do i just post my 10-15 mags and 3-4 pistols with pics and see who can identify them?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Dwight Gruber]

Post the pics.


--Dwight

[alamar]

Will do on the weekend.

Thank you

[Edward Tinker]

I do not remember a chart, but I think you're asking, which lugers had what kind of magazine.
I can not for the life of me say, this is a byf because its got rolled edges, which is probably what you are asking.
Let me give basics - in ed's words

Bases
DWM - wood bases - military or commercial
Erfurt - wood bases on military
Simson - Aluminum for almost all of the production, except a short time when it appears they used up wooden bases
Mauser - aluminum
Krieghoff - aluminum
**wood bases would be used until they needed more, then aluminum would be used (after 1925 for Simson, I think 1926 or 28 for DWM)

Magazine Bodies
DWM - could be bare metal or could have chrome plating
Erfurt - chrome plating (I may be wrong on that one)
acceptance stamps - i believe very early, such as 1909, 1910 DWM had two acceptance stamps, and then later on, one Stamp.
Erfurt stamp, I believe had two acceptance stamps entire production

No differences I believe between military or commercial magazines
Schmeisser made many of the magazines over the years - for Simson, that is who likely made them.

How they were made, i.e. folded, rolled, pushed out - a good friend explained it to me just recently and look, I forgot....

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Schmeisser made many of the magazines over the years - for Simson, that is who likely made them.

How they were made, i.e. folded, rolled, pushed out - a good friend explained it to me just recently and look, I forgot....

I used to think they looked extruded. I think it was John Sabato who said they were formed up, welded, then milled. The milling leaves parallel, lengthwise lines that make them look as if they were pushed out of a cookie press made for metal.

[alamar]

Sorry for the long delay. Work and a couple family issues kept me away from the computer

Here are the pics and right after them are some more details









Blued
Left to right

Mag 1
Aluminum bottom, black follower
Left side: fxo over E37, P08, near top of mag another E37, half way up, 2, 4 digit #’s electro-pencilled
Spine: Crudely stamped 4 digit # and an electo-pencilled 4 digit $

Mag 2, 3
Aluminum bottom, mag 2 black follower, mag 3 silver follower
Left side: fxo over E37, P08, near top of mag another E37

Mag 4
Plastic bottom
Left side: fxo over E37, P08, followed by a stamped 3 digit #, near top of mag another E37

Also have magazine that matches my 1938 dated S/42. No markings on the blued magazine, but the aluminum bottom has E63 or E83.zz


Silver

None have markings
Mag 1,4,5,6,8 wood bottom
Mag 6 looks very crisp, most lileky a replacement? No number

Mag 2,3,7 aluminum bottom
Mag 7, number is in Farsi



Trying to match (era wise) to the following pistols:

1938 S/42
1917 DWM
1942 BYF
1917 DWM Artillery

[MFC]

The magazine you described with your 1938 S/42 is correct.

1942 BYF - #4 Blued tube, black plastic bottom

1917 DWM and 1917 DWM Artillery - Silver tube, numbered wood bottom. (close enough)
There are many more details on the wood bottom mags which can't be made out in the pics which would determine manufacturer and year.

The blank wood bottom mags are commercial.

I have a Persian Artillery... I'd like to see a close up of the Farsi stamped mag. I'm always looking for a match.

[MFC]

These are rough estimates and there are overlaps.

Silver tube, wood bottom - 1900 to 1925
Silver tube, aluminum bottoms - 1925 to 1937
Blued tube, aluminum bottoms - 1937 to 1939
Blued milled tubes, aluminum bottoms - 1939 to 1941
Blued milled tubes, plastic bottoms - 1941 to 1942

[Dwight Gruber]

Mike, a revision or two:


Plated tube, wood bottom = DWM 1900-1930, Erfurt 1910-1918

Aluminum bottom = all new production (Simson, Haenel (also Krieghoff)) 1925-1941


Can't tell you Swiss off the top of my head


--Dwight

[tharpo]

I can help in identifying the aluminum bottom magazines.
#4435. It appears that an East German post war bottom has been installed on a 1941-42 fxo body.
#873y. 1941 Police.
Unmarked fxo. 1941-42 replacement.
#8451p. 1937.
#6956d. 1935 G date

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by tharpo

I can help in identifying the aluminum bottom magazines.
#4435. It appears that an East German post war bottom has been installed on a 1941-42 fxo body.

The bottom of this mag looks more like Zamak, the zinc alloy commonly used in the post-WWII firearms industry. There were umpteen guns made of the material beginning roughly in the late 50s/early 60s, and it's still in use today.

[alamar]

Thank you for all the info so far.

As requested a few more pics. My picture taking skills seem to be off tonight. If anyone needs better pics, let me know.

Mag 6 , the one owith the like new crisp wooden bottom, i believe is an original mag, that someone replaced a broken wooden piece. The mag condition is no where new like the wood bottom.

Mag with 4435, this is definitely different colored metal, much duller, darker and greyer, I guess Zamak (whatever that is) seems to be the answer.

How does one tell if a mag has been milled?

Pics are in the same order as previously.

[mrerick]

They are the group of four magazines in your first two photos, post #6.

Your "fxo" or "122" concealment marked magazines are all welded steel and milled into final form. The sharp edges indicate that they were milled. These were made by Haenel Schmeisser. After WW-II the plant was taken over by the East Germans, and brought into the Ernst Thalmann organization operations in Suhl. The "2/1001" concealment code was then used.

[cirelaw]

Assorted

[alamar]

Originally Posted by mrerick

They are the group of four magazines in your first two photos, post #6.

Your "fxo" or "122" concealment marked magazines are all welded steel and milled into final form. The sharp edges indicate that they were milled. These were made by Haenel Schmeisser. After WW-II the plant was taken over by the East Germans, and brought into the Ernst Thalmann organization operations in Suhl. The "2/1001" concealment code was then used.

I have a 2/1001 that goes with my VOPO Luger. I will be posting about that one later on. It has a Simson marked toggle which i found interesting.

Anyway, that mag and the others in my pictures that i posted look the same other than markings. However i did notice that on the 2/1001 magazine, that the top 1 inch or so is darker in color than the rest of the magazine. Any significance to that?

[tharpo]

On that magazine, 4435, it appears someone drilled a hole over the "P08" in the body to install a side pin. Fxo magazines only had the center pins through the bottom.
It also looks like a number was stamped next to the P08 on the body of the black plastic fxo magazine.

[alamar]

Correct on both accounts Tharpo. Im going to assume that the bottom was replaced with the Zamak made one, and they needed to secure it better?

"939" was stamped on the black plastic fxo magazine. Post war "forced" match?

[MFC]

Alamar,
Thank you for the pics of the Farsi marked mag... Not a match to my Persian, but I'll keep looking.

[ithacaartist]

Zamak is an acronym created from Zinc, Aluminum, Magnesium, and Kopper (auf Deutsch). There are a handful of specific formulations/proportions of the different metals in the general alloy. I believe it's #4 Zamak from which gun frames and parts are made. Its density is similar to steel, and although very close in weight to a steel pistol, the material is significantly brittle in comparison. I've heard that it becomes more brittle over time, and have anecdotal evidence that this is probably true.

Use of this material coincides with the concept of the dreaded "Saturday Night Specials," the inexpensive guns that were usually small caliber semi-autos--Raven, Davis, etc. Import regulations were adjusted to consider the melting temperature of a gun's frame, which eliminated a lot of the flow of the cheap foreign-made guns into the country.

[MFC]

I've read that the East German mag bottoms were "pot metal"... whatever that is...closer to aluminum than steel.