Load Recommendations

Happy Trails · 07-08-2005, 11:53 AM

I am new to the forum and also the new owner of a Commercial Luger in .30 Luger caliber.
I have worked up a load that seems to work quite well all the time.
I am using a .309" diameter 93 grain Copper Coated bullet from Buffalo Arms and driving it with 5.8 grs. of Accurate Arms #5 powder. It functions well and is quite accurate. I am crimping with a Lee Factory crimp die.

I want to use the gun in a Wild Bunch Match to be held by our local Cowboy Action Shooting club. All arms to be of the 1912 or earlier type. The Commercial qualifys. The only problem is the bullets have to be lead.

I've ordered some .309" x 115 gr. Lead Round Nose bullets and wonder if anyone might suggest a starting load and powder choice. I believe the bullet is bit heavier than normal but I figured it might be OK.
I am looking for a light load that I can work up so the gun will function each time.

Thanks in advance for any advise offered.

Hap

Edward Tinker · 07-08-2005, 02:42 PM

Bill, welcome to the forum!

I just got a 30 Luger (well Hugh put a 6 inch barrel on for me), and haven't shot it yet!

Ed

Vlim · 07-08-2005, 05:16 PM

Hi,

You might want to consider using standard Fiocchi .30 luger rounds for the contest.

Sieger · 07-08-2005, 05:32 PM

Hi:

Sounds like a lot of fun. Please let us know how well you did in the competition, as a well tuned Luger can be extremely accurate.

I wondering just how your sight picture will change with the heavier bullets. Your new load may shoot much higher to point of aim than your current bullet weight load.

Also, original 7.65 barrels run out to .312 in groove diameter, so either shoot fatter bullets than .309 and/or use extremely hard bullets for accuracy.

If you were shooting a 9mm Luger, I would have several match quality loads (three in one hole on a regular basis) for you. The powder you are currently using sounds about like the right burning rate to me. It's accurate in my 9mm, too, but not the absolute best selection.

If I were you, I'd try the following two powders for accuracy and velocity: Power Pistol and SR 4756. These are medium-slow burning powders, that will almost fill the case. I have had excellent results with these.

I don't know about crimping lead bullets, as they deform very easily.

Strangely, the original 9mm and 7.65 loads were loaded with 5.4 grains of exactly the same powder and had the exact same rifling twist.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Sieger

PS: I'm sure there is a 7.65 guy out there willing to share his loads with you. Ha!

Happy Trails · 07-08-2005, 09:37 PM

Hi,
Thanks for the replys.
G. vanV. does the Fiocchi .30 Luger come with lead bullets?
Sieger, I agree the gun is quite accurate. I am most pleased with it accuracy. I slugged my bore and found it to be .3088 so the .309's sounded about right. We will be shooting at 16" steel plates at 12 to 15 yds. so even if the 115's shoot a bit high it should be good enough.
I'll start about 20% less than current load and work my way up until the gun functions well. Glad to hear someone else is using the same powder.

Thanks again for the info.

Hap

Sieger · 07-09-2005, 03:41 AM

Happy Trails:

I just noticed your 5.8 gr accuracy load for your 7.65.

That is exactly the load that is most accurate in my 9mm.

Ha!!

Sieger

Vlim · 07-09-2005, 07:54 AM

Hi,

Yes, the Fiocchi 7.65 have a lead round nose bullet.

Sorry for the bad picture, but my camera lacks a decent macro function.

Loads can vary from batch to batch, but they feed excellently in my 1972 Mauser Parabellum.

Happy Trails · 07-09-2005, 11:29 PM

G.vanV,
Thanks for the picture and info. I did a search of some of the ammo suppliers and only turned up Fiocchi Jacketed ammo at Old West Scrounger. Any idea where it might be available in the states?

Vlim · 07-10-2005, 11:51 AM

Hap,

Sorry, can't help there. US members should be able to help.

Happy Trails · 07-15-2005, 10:31 PM

Howdy,
I figured I'd post a reply to let you folks know how I made out with my experiment using lead bullets in the .30 Commercial Luger.
As mentioned the barrel slugged out at .3088 so I used 115 gr. .309 diameter lead round nose bullets. These were advertised as being for the US .30 Carbine. I loaded some up with 4.5 grs. of Accurate Arms #5 and some with 5.0 grs of the same powder. The overall bullet length was 1.250". Much longer than recommended for a .30 Luger.
I tried some dummys and they seemed to feed OK from the magazine so it was off to the range.
For our match one is only allowed to load up to 6 rounds so that's what I started with considering the oveall length.
Here is what they looked like:

Well it doesn't happen often but the first trial with the 4.5 gr load worked perfectly. It functioned the gun flawlessly and all hits were within a playing card at 20 paces. Also right on for elevation.

The 5.0 load was a bit hot and started to flatten the primers so I canned that one.

The long lengths gave no problems in the original magazine nor in a spare Triple K.

I am pleased to say I will have a fine functioning Luger for the Wild Bunch Match.

Thanks for all the replys.

Best,
Hap

07-08-2005, 11:53 AM	#1
Happy Trails New User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Load Recommendations I am new to the forum and also the new owner of a Commercial Luger in .30 Luger caliber. I have worked up a load that seems to work quite well all the time. I am using a .309" diameter 93 grain Copper Coated bullet from Buffalo Arms and driving it with 5.8 grs. of Accurate Arms #5 powder. It functions well and is quite accurate. I am crimping with a Lee Factory crimp die. I want to use the gun in a Wild Bunch Match to be held by our local Cowboy Action Shooting club. All arms to be of the 1912 or earlier type. The Commercial qualifys. The only problem is the bullets have to be lead. I've ordered some .309" x 115 gr. Lead Round Nose bullets and wonder if anyone might suggest a starting load and powder choice. I believe the bullet is bit heavier than normal but I figured it might be OK. I am looking for a light load that I can work up so the gun will function each time. Thanks in advance for any advise offered. Hap

07-08-2005, 02:42 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Bill, welcome to the forum! I just got a 30 Luger (well Hugh put a 6 inch barrel on for me), and haven't shot it yet! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-08-2005, 05:32 PM	#4
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Load Hi: Sounds like a lot of fun. Please let us know how well you did in the competition, as a well tuned Luger can be extremely accurate. I wondering just how your sight picture will change with the heavier bullets. Your new load may shoot much higher to point of aim than your current bullet weight load. Also, original 7.65 barrels run out to .312 in groove diameter, so either shoot fatter bullets than .309 and/or use extremely hard bullets for accuracy. If you were shooting a 9mm Luger, I would have several match quality loads (three in one hole on a regular basis) for you. The powder you are currently using sounds about like the right burning rate to me. It's accurate in my 9mm, too, but not the absolute best selection. If I were you, I'd try the following two powders for accuracy and velocity: Power Pistol and SR 4756. These are medium-slow burning powders, that will almost fill the case. I have had excellent results with these. I don't know about crimping lead bullets, as they deform very easily. Strangely, the original 9mm and 7.65 loads were loaded with 5.4 grains of exactly the same powder and had the exact same rifling twist. Good luck and keep us informed. Sieger PS: I'm sure there is a 7.65 guy out there willing to share his loads with you. Ha!

07-09-2005, 03:41 AM	#6
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Load Happy Trails: I just noticed your 5.8 gr accuracy load for your 7.65. That is exactly the load that is most accurate in my 9mm. Ha!! Sieger

07-08-2005, 05:16 PM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, You might want to consider using standard Fiocchi .30 luger rounds for the contest.

07-08-2005, 09:37 PM	#5
Happy Trails New User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi, Thanks for the replys. G. vanV. does the Fiocchi .30 Luger come with lead bullets? Sieger, I agree the gun is quite accurate. I am most pleased with it accuracy. I slugged my bore and found it to be .3088 so the .309's sounded about right. We will be shooting at 16" steel plates at 12 to 15 yds. so even if the 115's shoot a bit high it should be good enough. I'll start about 20% less than current load and work my way up until the gun functions well. Glad to hear someone else is using the same powder. Thanks again for the info. Hap

07-09-2005, 07:54 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, Yes, the Fiocchi 7.65 have a lead round nose bullet. Sorry for the bad picture, but my camera lacks a decent macro function. Loads can vary from batch to batch, but they feed excellently in my 1972 Mauser Parabellum.

07-09-2005, 11:29 PM	#8
Happy Trails New User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	G.vanV, Thanks for the picture and info. I did a search of some of the ammo suppliers and only turned up Fiocchi Jacketed ammo at Old West Scrounger. Any idea where it might be available in the states?

07-10-2005, 11:51 AM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hap, Sorry, can't help there. US members should be able to help.

07-15-2005, 10:31 PM	#10
Happy Trails New User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Howdy, I figured I'd post a reply to let you folks know how I made out with my experiment using lead bullets in the .30 Commercial Luger. As mentioned the barrel slugged out at .3088 so I used 115 gr. .309 diameter lead round nose bullets. These were advertised as being for the US .30 Carbine. I loaded some up with 4.5 grs. of Accurate Arms #5 and some with 5.0 grs of the same powder. The overall bullet length was 1.250". Much longer than recommended for a .30 Luger. I tried some dummys and they seemed to feed OK from the magazine so it was off to the range. For our match one is only allowed to load up to 6 rounds so that's what I started with considering the oveall length. Here is what they looked like: Well it doesn't happen often but the first trial with the 4.5 gr load worked perfectly. It functioned the gun flawlessly and all hits were within a playing card at 20 paces. Also right on for elevation. The 5.0 load was a bit hot and started to flatten the primers so I canned that one. The long lengths gave no problems in the original magazine nor in a spare Triple K. I am pleased to say I will have a fine functioning Luger for the Wild Bunch Match. Thanks for all the replys. Best, Hap