Fixing loose toggle pin

Karl · 12-02-2004, 01:40 PM

The toggle lock retaining pin on my M1900 Luger is loose and works its way out of the toggle. How can I correct this? KFS

Heinz · 12-02-2004, 09:52 PM

Quit playing with the toggle action! You really should do nothing to it, a little heavy grease will hold it in place. If it is a shooter, and the pin is original, I would get in touch with Tom Heller for a replacement pin. If the replacement is loose you can lightly peen the uncrowned end of the pin just until the play stops. Do NOT do this to the original.

DougT · 12-03-2004, 03:25 AM

Karl, it's your gun--play with it all you want. Perhaps you could clean the parts up and try some type of threadlocker like Loctite--just a suggestion.
DougT

John Sabato · 12-03-2004, 02:12 PM

DougT, I think you missed the point of Heinz' fatherly advice here. The needless disassembly of the toggle train causes stress and wear on parts that were never designed to be disassembled unless the weapon were being overhauled by a government arsenal or factory. I concur with his advice. Don't take a toggle apart unless you have no other choice...especially on a model 1900 or any other early Luger with a toggle lock mechanism.

Exceptions would be:

Refinishing/Reblue
Repair/Replacement of broken or malfunctioning parts.

Heinz · 12-03-2004, 08:46 PM

Karl, I apologize if my humor was off mark. I mistakenly thought this was a request from a new member. I would still advise using a replacement pin and peening or bending it slightly to impose a little tension. The fear would be that you might lose the original if it works its way out. (just did that at the range on a grip screw) And you would not want to distort the original. You don't need to peen the pin like a rivet on the end. You can flatten the side to increase the width. Piano wire in the right diameter may also be fashioned into a workable pin.

Karl · 12-03-2004, 10:41 PM

Thanks to everyone for the advise and no offense taken Heinz. Perhaps I should have clarified that the toggle lock retaining pin, horizontally through the toggle knob, works its way out (forward) during firing; I presume due to intertia at rest. I didn't know whether this could be remedied with something like locktite or if there was another easy solution. Heinz, your suggestion about lightly peening a replacement pin is interesting but if I have to replace the pin I would rather fashion one out of brass so it wouldn't enlarge or distort the hole in the toggle. I have access to a metal shop with jeweler's drawplates and can draw down wire to any size, but would prefer an easier fix (I'm lazy). Has anyone had experience with loose pins and locktite or a similar product? Crazy glue? Thanks. KFS

Heinz · 12-04-2004, 06:22 PM

Karl, since you are shooting it :-) You may try slipping a thin slip of aluminum foil (trim it with a siccors)into one of the holes before sliding the pin in. Locktite is the best choice as it has some flexibility to the final set. I have no knowledge of how it would be on the finish. There is an aviation grade locktite.

The brass pin is a superior idea, and you would not have to trim it, just give it a slight bend or bow to apply tension.

As my grandfather, the real German craftsman used to say, "it is just a matter of how ofteen you want to fix it"

regards, heinz

ViggoG · 12-05-2004, 03:57 AM

Karl and Others, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
I would be very cautious about using Loctite or similar agents.
Many of these cements and bonding agents have caustic or acidic activators, or if you prefer catalyzers or oxidizers.
The off gassing of the chemical action would most likely negatively affect the blue for as much as .5" or more from the actual point of application, and at the actual point of application the chemicals will most likely play havoc.
This is just an educated guess but I would recommend trial on something that is expendable.
ViggoG <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />

Lugerdoc · 12-05-2004, 12:56 PM

Karl, Whatever you do, don't use the permenate (red) loctite, or you'll never get it out again. TH

12-02-2004, 01:40 PM	#1
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 522 Thanks: 0 Thanked 271 Times in 118 Posts	Fixing loose toggle pin The toggle lock retaining pin on my M1900 Luger is loose and works its way out of the toggle. How can I correct this? KFS

12-03-2004, 02:12 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	DougT, I think you missed the point of Heinz' fatherly advice here. The needless disassembly of the toggle train causes stress and wear on parts that were never designed to be disassembled unless the weapon were being overhauled by a government arsenal or factory. I concur with his advice. Don't take a toggle apart unless you have no other choice...especially on a model 1900 or any other early Luger with a toggle lock mechanism. Exceptions would be: Refinishing/Reblue Repair/Replacement of broken or malfunctioning parts. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-05-2004, 12:56 PM	#9
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Karl, Whatever you do, don't use the permenate (red) loctite, or you'll never get it out again. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-02-2004, 09:52 PM	#2
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Quit playing with the toggle action! You really should do nothing to it, a little heavy grease will hold it in place. If it is a shooter, and the pin is original, I would get in touch with Tom Heller for a replacement pin. If the replacement is loose you can lightly peen the uncrowned end of the pin just until the play stops. Do NOT do this to the original.

12-03-2004, 03:25 AM	#3
DougT User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 171 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Karl, it's your gun--play with it all you want. Perhaps you could clean the parts up and try some type of threadlocker like Loctite--just a suggestion. DougT

12-03-2004, 08:46 PM	#5
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Karl, I apologize if my humor was off mark. I mistakenly thought this was a request from a new member. I would still advise using a replacement pin and peening or bending it slightly to impose a little tension. The fear would be that you might lose the original if it works its way out. (just did that at the range on a grip screw) And you would not want to distort the original. You don't need to peen the pin like a rivet on the end. You can flatten the side to increase the width. Piano wire in the right diameter may also be fashioned into a workable pin.

12-03-2004, 10:41 PM	#6
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 522 Thanks: 0 Thanked 271 Times in 118 Posts	Thanks to everyone for the advise and no offense taken Heinz. Perhaps I should have clarified that the toggle lock retaining pin, horizontally through the toggle knob, works its way out (forward) during firing; I presume due to intertia at rest. I didn't know whether this could be remedied with something like locktite or if there was another easy solution. Heinz, your suggestion about lightly peening a replacement pin is interesting but if I have to replace the pin I would rather fashion one out of brass so it wouldn't enlarge or distort the hole in the toggle. I have access to a metal shop with jeweler's drawplates and can draw down wire to any size, but would prefer an easier fix (I'm lazy). Has anyone had experience with loose pins and locktite or a similar product? Crazy glue? Thanks. KFS

12-04-2004, 06:22 PM	#7
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Karl, since you are shooting it :-) You may try slipping a thin slip of aluminum foil (trim it with a siccors)into one of the holes before sliding the pin in. Locktite is the best choice as it has some flexibility to the final set. I have no knowledge of how it would be on the finish. There is an aviation grade locktite. The brass pin is a superior idea, and you would not have to trim it, just give it a slight bend or bow to apply tension. As my grandfather, the real German craftsman used to say, "it is just a matter of how ofteen you want to fix it" regards, heinz

12-05-2004, 03:57 AM	#8
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Karl and Others, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> I would be very cautious about using Loctite or similar agents. Many of these cements and bonding agents have caustic or acidic activators, or if you prefer catalyzers or oxidizers. The off gassing of the chemical action would most likely negatively affect the blue for as much as .5" or more from the actual point of application, and at the actual point of application the chemicals will most likely play havoc. This is just an educated guess but I would recommend trial on something that is expendable. ViggoG <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />