New member looking for info.

doubleaes2 · 09-18-2006, 06:15 PM

I have recently come into temporary custody of a P08 Luger. So far I have determined that it was made by DWM, has a four digit serial number, two magazines, one with a wooden base, it also has the tang on the grip for the shoulder stock. Barrel looks to be four inches, and I cannot find any military acceptance marks anywhere. The toggle is stamped with a 94,as are alot of small parts. On the front strap of the grip is stamped " S.D. III.R(with an X overstamped).64." There also seems to be a lanyard attaching point above grip and below the toggle. The only two markings seem to be a N with a crown over it, and the word "GESICHERT" under the safety lever when in the safe position.

There is no number over the chamber, and there is no evidence of the number being removed. On the underside of the barrel, in front of the chamber, the four digit serial number is stamped, and below that (with the barrel pointing up) is a proofmark. On second thought, that proofmark could be the letter "C", but it looks like something has been stamped over it.

Sorry that was so windy, any help is appreciated.

John Sabato · 09-18-2006, 06:58 PM

Adam, welcome to the Lugerforum...

While someone may be able to tell you what the Unit marking stamped on the front strap means, without good clear photos and the actual serial number (front of the frame likely with a small alphabetical cursive character under it-it is not a proof mark, but a critical part of the serial number.) ...it will be very hard to tell you much more. If you need help posting photos, please just ask, and someone will help out...

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2006, 07:00 PM

Adam, welcome to the forum! Windy is best... The last 2 of the serial number is the 2 digits you see all over, shows those parts go with that gun.

If you give us the full four and the suffix (letter under the serial on the front). BTW, the "proof" is probably the suffix I am looking for, there should either be a crown N on the left or proofs on the right of the receiver.

No year on the reciever, so more than likely a weimar era made and that might be a police marking on the grip strap. Can you provide photos?

Ed

doubleaes2 · 09-19-2006, 06:31 AM

Thank you for your replies gentlemen.

The serial is 2794 and the letter I think is a "C" or possibly an "O". Sorry I don't have pictures, as I have yet to purchase a camera. There is a Crown over "N" on the left side of the reciever.

Adam

Don M · 09-19-2006, 10:23 AM

Adam,

Since there is no date stamped on the chamber, this is almost certainly what is known as an "Alphabet DWM," a series of initially commercial Lugers produced by DWM from mid-1921 through 1928 (Weimar Lugers, p. 15). The letter suffix is probably an "o" which means your pistol was manufactured in 1925. The full serial number is 2794o.

The grip strap marking indicates the gun was weapon no. 64 of the Schutzpolizei (municipal police) of Command III in the governmental district of DÃ?Â¼sseldorf. Unfortunately, I cannot identify which city was Command III. I do know it was not the cities of DÃ?Â¼sseldorf or Wuppertal.

The x'd out R. means the pistol was assigned to the Revierpolizei (precinct police) in Command III as distinct from the barracked Bereitschaften (Reserve Forces or Riot Squads). Ministry of the Interior orders issued in February 1932 specifying the marking format of police property omitted the inclusion of R. in these marks. This probably led to the cancellation of this part of the mark on your pistol.

Does your pistol have a sear safety or mag safety or evidence that either was once installed? If you are not familiar with these devices, I will post photos.

doubleaes2 · 09-19-2006, 05:59 PM

Don M,

Thanks for the great info. There is a thumb safety on the left side of the frame that you push down and back to engage.

Adam

Don M · 09-19-2006, 07:45 PM

Adam,

Sear and mag (magazine) safeties were devices added to police Lugers in the 1930s. Here is a photo showing both:

The sear safety is a narrow strip of spring metal attached to the top rail of the receiver by a small rivet.

Most mag safeties have been removed or disabled. This one was disabled by clipping the part that blocked the trigger. Evidence of a mag safety includes the slot cut in the frame and the removal of the upper left corner of the left grip.

Does yours have either of these? I'll bet it has/had at least a sear safety.

doubleaes2 · 09-20-2006, 06:08 AM

Don,

It has the sear safety, no evidence of the mag safety. Thanks for the picture.

Edward Tinker · 09-20-2006, 05:49 PM

Adam, take a look at the FAQ in the new collector area, it has this information and other info to help new guys to this collecting field.

Ed

doubleaes2 · 10-06-2006, 08:43 PM

Here it is.

Don M · 10-07-2006, 12:35 AM

Adam,

That's quite a photo! Did you confirm that the suffix is "o"?

It's interesting that it has no serial number on the left side of the receiver. What is on the right side of the receiver?

doubleaes2 · 10-07-2006, 05:25 AM

09-18-2006, 06:15 PM	#1
doubleaes2 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Homosassa, Fl Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New member looking for info. I have recently come into temporary custody of a P08 Luger. So far I have determined that it was made by DWM, has a four digit serial number, two magazines, one with a wooden base, it also has the tang on the grip for the shoulder stock. Barrel looks to be four inches, and I cannot find any military acceptance marks anywhere. The toggle is stamped with a 94,as are alot of small parts. On the front strap of the grip is stamped " S.D. III.R(with an X overstamped).64." There also seems to be a lanyard attaching point above grip and below the toggle. The only two markings seem to be a N with a crown over it, and the word "GESICHERT" under the safety lever when in the safe position. There is no number over the chamber, and there is no evidence of the number being removed. On the underside of the barrel, in front of the chamber, the four digit serial number is stamped, and below that (with the barrel pointing up) is a proofmark. On second thought, that proofmark could be the letter "C", but it looks like something has been stamped over it. Sorry that was so windy, any help is appreciated.

09-18-2006, 06:58 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Adam, welcome to the Lugerforum... While someone may be able to tell you what the Unit marking stamped on the front strap means, without good clear photos and the actual serial number (front of the frame likely with a small alphabetical cursive character under it-it is not a proof mark, but a critical part of the serial number.) ...it will be very hard to tell you much more. If you need help posting photos, please just ask, and someone will help out... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-18-2006, 07:00 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Adam, welcome to the forum! Windy is best... The last 2 of the serial number is the 2 digits you see all over, shows those parts go with that gun. If you give us the full four and the suffix (letter under the serial on the front). BTW, the "proof" is probably the suffix I am looking for, there should either be a crown N on the left or proofs on the right of the receiver. No year on the reciever, so more than likely a weimar era made and that might be a police marking on the grip strap. Can you provide photos? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-19-2006, 10:23 AM	#5
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Adam, Since there is no date stamped on the chamber, this is almost certainly what is known as an "Alphabet DWM," a series of initially commercial Lugers produced by DWM from mid-1921 through 1928 (Weimar Lugers, p. 15). The letter suffix is probably an "o" which means your pistol was manufactured in 1925. The full serial number is 2794o. The grip strap marking indicates the gun was weapon no. 64 of the Schutzpolizei (municipal police) of Command III in the governmental district of DÃ?Â¼sseldorf. Unfortunately, I cannot identify which city was Command III. I do know it was not the cities of DÃ?Â¼sseldorf or Wuppertal. The x'd out R. means the pistol was assigned to the Revierpolizei (precinct police) in Command III as distinct from the barracked Bereitschaften (Reserve Forces or Riot Squads). Ministry of the Interior orders issued in February 1932 specifying the marking format of police property omitted the inclusion of R. in these marks. This probably led to the cancellation of this part of the mark on your pistol. Does your pistol have a sear safety or mag safety or evidence that either was once installed? If you are not familiar with these devices, I will post photos. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

09-19-2006, 07:45 PM	#7
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Adam, Sear and mag (magazine) safeties were devices added to police Lugers in the 1930s. Here is a photo showing both: The sear safety is a narrow strip of spring metal attached to the top rail of the receiver by a small rivet. Most mag safeties have been removed or disabled. This one was disabled by clipping the part that blocked the trigger. Evidence of a mag safety includes the slot cut in the frame and the removal of the upper left corner of the left grip. Does yours have either of these? I'll bet it has/had at least a sear safety. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

09-19-2006, 06:31 AM	#4
doubleaes2 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Homosassa, Fl Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for your replies gentlemen. The serial is 2794 and the letter I think is a "C" or possibly an "O". Sorry I don't have pictures, as I have yet to purchase a camera. There is a Crown over "N" on the left side of the reciever. Adam

09-19-2006, 05:59 PM	#6
doubleaes2 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Homosassa, Fl Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don M, Thanks for the great info. There is a thumb safety on the left side of the frame that you push down and back to engage. Adam

09-20-2006, 06:08 AM	#8
doubleaes2 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Homosassa, Fl Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don, It has the sear safety, no evidence of the mag safety. Thanks for the picture. __________________ Adam

09-20-2006, 05:49 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Adam, take a look at the FAQ in the new collector area, it has this information and other info to help new guys to this collecting field. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-06-2006, 08:43 PM	#10
doubleaes2 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Homosassa, Fl Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here it is. __________________ Adam

10-07-2006, 12:35 AM	#11
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Adam, That's quite a photo! Did you confirm that the suffix is "o"? It's interesting that it has no serial number on the left side of the receiver. What is on the right side of the receiver? __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

10-07-2006, 05:25 AM	#12
doubleaes2 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Homosassa, Fl Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	__________________ Adam