Shooting a Luger...In An IDPA Match!

[JonS/42]

Greetings to the forum-it's been awhile since I've posted. Some basic history: Back in 1997, I acquired a matching number 1938 S/42 WWII Russian capture piece, which was stored with several thousand others in a Ukranian depot. Subsequent to the departure of the Soviet military, and the Ukranian independance, the depot was discovered, and at least one major arms importer was invited to view the arms and select; of the approximately 5,000 Lugers, about 1,400 were selected for export and import into the US by Lew Horton. I had an interesting discussion of the entire process with the then president of Miltex (back in the late 1990's after I acquired the gun), which I believe was one of Lew Horton's subsidiaries, through which the guns were marketed.

My gun (and all of the others from this collection that I saw imported) had been dip reblued, and I had my doubts as to the originality of the grips-the grips appeared to be original, but not necessarily those originally with the guns-shades of US M1911 arsenel rebuilds.

While mine had all matching parts (save the magazine, which was a stamped Type II Army), there was the issue of the dip reblueing and the importer marks, which essentially eradicated any true collector value to the gun. Additionally, there was a dent in the left side of the receiver, the grips were battered, chipped, and generally filthy, and although fully functional, the gun was hardly seamlessly reliable...

So-I put in a call to John Martz. I explained to John what I had, and what I desired was to have a pristine, fully functional and totally restored gun that I would use recreationally, primarily in local league steel plate matches. John, as many of you know, is a consummate gentleman, and a pleasure to work with. We decided to have fun with the gun-in addition to its total mecanical restoration, instead of the historically accurate salt-blue finish, we decided to apply a deep rust-blueing, with the applicable small parts either strawed or fire-blued, and the grips replaced with a set of English presentation walnut grips, with in the 1898/1899 Borchardt/Luger Transitional pistol pattern-that is, checkered with a smooth border on the edges of the grips. John did the mechanical and action work (including TIG welding to remove the dent {a romantic would see battle-damage; the former Major Stein saw "PFC with a crowbar"}), Charles Danner in Tennessee performed the blueing and strawing, and George Sarkissian back in California did the grips. John put everything together, performed an action job, and hand-tuned the original Type II magazine and provided two additional extruded FXO magazines (I later found a third FXO magazine)...and Voila! One absolutely superb, impeccibly reliable, unique historical firearm-one that wasn't trying to pass itself off as an "original" 1938 S/42, someting it wasn't, due to the previous Russian dip-blueing and our reconstruction (with its twists). Subsequently, I had El Paso Saddlery make a 1902 pattern US flap holster, similar to those made by Rock Island Armory for the US Test Trial Lugers (for the IDPA match, I used and Uncle Mikes appropriately sized and fitting nylon IWB holster, and a Matt DelFatti double magazine holder), and Jerry Burney in Arizona provided me with one of his reproduction lanyards. Ralph Shattuck provided an authentic period magazine loading tool, and I trudged off to have a splendid time shooting the gun in steel plate matches from time-to-time for several years (getting an illicit amount of pleasure both from operating the gun, and in triumphing over much more modern, often much more expensive guns and their users).

Fast forward to two weeks ago. I've recently been active in IDPA, and qualified in the Stock Service Pistol category. While I've been predominantly concentrating on my Glocks, both for competition and carry, June would be a "fun match" for me, as my next Glock competition wasn't until August...so I decided to deploy the 1938 S/42.

I had an absolute blast. Despite the miniscule sights, the gun was certainly competitive, due to its inherent pointability and accuracy. I used Winchester Wal-Mart Range Target 115gr Value Pack ammunition, and lubed the critical metal-on-metal frictive parts with TW25B, and used FP10 as a general lubricant. Everyone in my squad was 1)initially flabbergasted, 2)incredulous, 3)skeptical, and 4)impressed (not necessarily by MY shooting). The Luger performed absolutely flawlessly, through six tactical scenarios, incorporating much movement and reloading (the relatively lower powered ammunition performed nicely, but had insufficient "oomph" to activate the toggle hold-open device and the end of each magazine, but that was of no real operational consequence).

I had a great time, and it was a bit of an eye-opener for some of my fellow shooters to see how a classic (sounds better than "antique") WWII era gun could perform, and perform well with and against much more modern guns, with their improvements (and especially their better sighting systems)-and it was a tribute to John Martz and his team's efforts, patience, and meticulous craftsmanship. I just spoke with John earlier today, sharing with him my pleasure in his craftsmanship and the fun that I'd had in the match. John is well; he told me that he'd slowed down a bit, and has significantly cut down on his custom work, but he continues to be active in the repair arena. It was great to touch bases with him, and he enjoyed hearing that the gun was used successfully, much as it was originally intended...I just sent off to him a selection of "action pictures" that the club photographer took of me shooting the Luger during the match-I hope that John derives some pleasure from seeing his handiwork in action, and not just in a collection display (not that there's anything wrong with that, but mine was made to be used).

Best, Jon

[c3006]

Post us a pic of that baby jon I would love to see it. clint

[lugerholsterrepair]

Joh, A very pleasant read of your exploits! You are right about John Martz..A true gentleman and the consumate craftsman at his chosen trade.
I was wondering..Have you actually used your Luger lanyard and has it held up? Though dainty they seem quite strong. Must be fun to be the envy of the meet! Jerry Burney

[JonS/42]

Jerry, your lanyard was (and is!) great-excellent craftsmanship. Several years ago, I did use it in several steel plate matches, and it held up well. Using them is definitely an acquired taste, especially when used for obtaining additional firing stability. Jan Still's book on the Third Reich Lugers has several fairly good photos of it being used early in WWII, but I suspect that it was very quickly discarded by German troops. The Luger was complicated enough getting out of it's holster, and the lanyard would do little but complicate things; that retention technique adapted was merely to stuff the gun into the soldier's leather belt, as opposed to it dangling from the lanyard, as depicted in Jan Still's photos.

It's a nice accessory though, and goes nicely with the El Paso Saddlery holster I had made, but its use in an IDPA match would probably not pass RO or Match Director scrutiny, and then there's the dreaded 20 second "Failure To Do Right" penalty threat lurking in the background...

Best, Jon

[azlaw]

I plan to have a "Luger in a Cowboy Action Match" report in August.

[JonS/42]

Nice rig, Azlaw-who made it for you?

Best, Jon

[azlaw]

Made by Gene Brown of Old Pueblo Leather, Tucson AZ. His phone is 520-682-8519.

This rig was intended as a prototype, I intend to have him make a much fancier rig in the future. I am having him re-make the belt on this rig to move the cartridge loops to the middle of the belt, since there should no be a requirement to "speed load" individual cartidges.

He also wants to do a Mexican Loop version of the holster, when someone is interested.

H

[Pete Ebbink]

I love the Audley-holster "look" to your new leather...

[azlaw]

A few more views over on the Holster forum. I like the way it came out, Gene shortened the Audley design, and of course it doesn't have the metal trigger clip. We discussed using a retaining strap, but not really needed for Cowboy Action Shooting use.

I think that an all black rig with silver conchos or studding would also look cool. My CAS competition rig is this way.

H

[JonS/42]

This is an older post, but I finally got around to taking some digital images. The Luger just got back from John Martz; he replaced my cracking ejector, and replaced the non-functioning toggle hold-open device. It was a pleasure talking with John and Neola. Unfortunately, age and infirmities are affecting John, so he's primarily concentrating on Luger parts sales as opposed to his magnificent previous creations.

I plan on shooting the Luger in an IDPA match later this year, probably after our August State Championship match. I can't get over just how accurate these pistols (at least mine) are; during a recent practice (when I discovered the cracked ejector) myself and some fellow IDPA members had a blast shooting it.

Best, Jon

[spartacus38]

I used to shoot a 1917 Artillery in IPSIC (international pistol shooting association).Had a blast
and did it for fun.I had to use an 8 round mag so I was at a disadvantage.I asked if I could use a 32 round snail drum but the answer was no.
Is IDPA similiar to IPSIC?
I had the best results using the FXO luger mags.
Bob

[lugerholsterrepair]

Jon, Fantastic reminder of your beautiful working pistol! Nice new photo..Prooves a hundred year + design can still do the job.

[JonS/42]

Originally Posted by spartacus38

I used to shoot a 1917 Artillery in IPSIC (international pistol shooting association).Had a blast
and did it for fun.I had to use an 8 round mag so I was at a disadvantage.I asked if I could use a 32 round snail drum but the answer was no.
Is IDPA similiar to IPSIC?
I had the best results using the FXO luger mags.
Bob

IPSIC (USPSA in the US) is much more "run and gun" than IDPA, which (at least ostensibly) is more oriented towards scenarios that are at least vaguely resembling potnetial "real life" defensive scenarios. In IDPA, stage round count are held to an 18-round maximum (not that you're necessarily constrained to shooting only 18 rounds, but that only 18 rounds are necessary to "solve" the stage).

I've also found the FXO magazines to be the best; part of it is their stronger tube construction, and part of it is that their tube construction and followers are such that the top cartridge is held a bit higher, which makes for easier feeding from magazine to chamber; with FXO magazines, my P.08 will reliably feed Winchester Silvertip hollowpoints.

In my experience, the best results have been obtained with John Martz synchronizing the basic gun, the recoil spring, the magazines, and the magazine springs. He's tuned mine to work with standard-pressure 115 gr ball ammunition, and he specifically recommends Winchester factory ammunition.

Best, Jon

[JonS/42]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Jon, Fantastic reminder of your beautiful working pistol! Nice new photo..Prooves a hundred year + design can still do the job.

Jerry, thanks for your kind words. When I have a chance, I'll take some better photos, with more detail.

Question for you: Have you/can you do an inside the waistband holster for a P.08 with an FBI cant, and a sweatshield? Right now for IDPA I'm using a genaric, but usable Uncle Mike's multi-use holster (capable of being used either as an IWB or OWB holster), but I might be interested in "classing things up" a bit holster-wise, to do John's work a bit more justice.

Let me know your thoughts.

Best, Jon

[luscioman]

Very nice piece and story. Did you find it difficult to complete fast magazine changes?

[JonS/42]

Originally Posted by luscioman

Very nice piece and story. Did you find it difficult to complete fast magazine changes?

Thanks for your comments, Luscioman; I've found the terms "fast magazine changes" and "Luger" when connected together to be a bit of an oxymoron...While the expended magazine certainly ejects out quickly enough due to the push-button ejection, insertion of the fresh magazine is, shall we say, a bit of an acquired skill. Canting the gun at an angle so that you have visibility of the magazine well is a big help, and a fairly natural movement anyhow for reloading. Once inserted, lightly cuffing/karate chopping the held-open toggle releases it to go into battery fairly expeditiously-if the hold-open device works. If not, the toggle needs to be raised and released.

Dry-fire/dry reloading prior to an actual match is a definite aid, and builds up the specific muscle memories needed.

Best, Jon

[lugerholsterrepair]

the waistband holster for a P.08 with an FBI cant, and a sweatshield?

Jon, No sorry..I am totally unfamiliar with modern holsters...You need to find someone who knows the type you want. I specialize in pre 1945 German holsters and rarely get out of my sphere. Thanks for asking though.

[Michael Zeleny]

Is John Martz taking new work these days?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Michael..I am sure John is not. He is up in years and it's my understanding he is concentrating on the Luger parts business as he must have plenty!

[Rugger]

Jon:

Could you share Mr. Martz' contact information? I am intrested in a number of parts I have been looking for and would like to try my luck with him. I had the pleasure of handling the sale of 3 pistols by Mr. Martz a few years ago. They were as .45 Luger, a 9mm Baby Luger and .45 P-38; all three pristine and unfired. Unique and amazing weapons!

Best regards,