fails to"fire"

[joewitt_99]

Hi, I have a dwm luger and could not fire it recently at a range because it failed to fire a round after chambering. I field stripped the pistol and saw some wear on the "trigger lever" and thought that was the problem. I replaced the trigger lever and still can not get the pistol to fire or seemingly "****". Does anyone have a suggestion on what this could be or any suggestion on what else I can do? I am not familiar with the p-08 and would not rule out that I may be overlooking something obvious.

Thanks for the help

JOe

[Thor]

Is there any wear on the side of the receiver next just in front of the sideplate. Can you hear the disconnector reset with a "click" when you release the trigger after the action is cycled manually? If you see wear on the receiver and the action doesnt click to reset, the trigger lever is probably over rotating preventing the reset. This wear mark is normally from the trigger lever dragging on the receiver during the recoil cycle.Take the top section off and put the side plate back on the frame and see if the trigger lever rotates beyond being flush with the edge of the trigger plate when the trigger is fully pulled. Most of the time this is the cause in trigger reset failures.
Here is an example of the lever drag mark. Some folks think it is sideplate dragging but most are not the sideplate but the trigger lever.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/HC1900AEB2.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/HC1900AEB2.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

[Thor]

When the gun is SAFE and EMPTY with no round in the chamber, take the top off the frame and see if you can actuate the firing pin by pressing the front end of the sear bar. If you can the gun is cocking but the trigger is just not resetting.

[joewitt_99]

Hi thanks for the help!

I can not actuate the firing pin by depressing the sear bar after cocking the weapon. I have also attached a pic of the sideplate area

Thanks again

Joe

[Pete Ebbink]

http://photos.yahoo.com/joewitt_99

[Thor]

Lugerdoc may help us, he is a real expert on mechanics of Lugers. It may not be cocking! The firing pin may not be catching on the sear bar when the action is worked. The sear bar is the little flat bar that rocks back and for to work. To actuate by hand you push IN on the front end from the side. The sear bar will return to the cocking position by the sear spring after you release the thunb pressure. I am sure I could fix it if I had it in my hands. I had one in my shop the other day that had the sear bar plunger (disconnector) put in backwards. I fixed this one, and it had over rotation problems in addition to the backwards parts.

[Thor]

The other thing is to make sure the sear bar (part 18) rotates freely and is not stuck in one postion by old grime or dried up grease. Does the firing pin and sear bar have sharp edges at the points of engagement? The rear inside notch of part 18 must be able to catch and retain (until released during firing) the outside notch of part 13.

[joewitt_99]

Thanks thor, you have been a big help! I will try to **** the pistol manually as you described. I have a feeling you are pointing me in the direction of the problem.

thanks again for the info

p.s. if I start further disassembling the pistol to examine the bolt, etc. Is there anything I should be careful not to do? I have never disassembled the pistol past removing the receiver for cleaning in the 20+ years I have owned it

joe

[Thor]

Make sure it is empty first and foremost then follow until step three. If you get the top (receiver/barrel/toggle) off you can check sear bar rotation with all three intact. Push the front (left end with muzzle to left) end of the sear bar inwards, this should release the firing pin and bend the sear spring, when you release the sear bar should go back to its relaxed or prefiring position. Only if the firing pin is caught by the sear bar will the firing pin go forward when you press the bar inwards.
Luger Disassembly CLICK HERE

[joewitt_99]

Hi, Eureka, that worked in terms of getting the firing pin to engage. I am still left with a trigger that does not engage the firing pin after I re-assemble, though-back to the trigger lever? At least I know the firing pin can **** and fire!

I have added more pictures to my photo site that illustrate the clearance I have with the trigger lever-is this normal?

http://photos.yahoo.com/joewitt_99

Thanks

Joe

[Thor]

Joe, cant really tell, but the trigger lever should be moving back inside the trigger plate when your finger is off the trigger then move to being flush with the sideplate at full trigger pull. The button at the end of the sear bar should move when you push on it with your finger and then spring back out briskly when you remove your finger. If your finger is off the trigger in that photo, your trigger lever is NOT retracted enough to get the trigger to reset.

[Vlim]

Hi Joe,

Is your sideplate assembly a replacement?

[joewitt_99]

Hi G. van,

The sideplate assembly is the one that was on the pistol when I purchased it and it is stamped with a matching number.

I am going to take a closer look at it later because I am convinced the movement of this trigger lever has something to do with my problem.

Thanks

[Thor]

you can take the toggle assembly off the top, then install the barrelled receiver minus the toggle train on the frame with the side plate in place, then you can watch the operation of the disconnector button at the end of the sear bar from the inside of the gun looking down. This is a trick Tom Heller taught me! If you dont see the little button moving once you release the trigger, the trigger lever is blocking the reset. Also make sure the trigger is installed correctly, this can sometimes cause this problem as it controls the angle the lever will rotate through. Several options that can be done if the trigger lever is not corret.
Option 1. You could spend all your adult life looking the a trigger lever than would work.
Option 2. You can get an UNHARDENED trigger lever from Tom Heller and bend it judisiously until it moves correctly.
Option 3. another trigger MIGHT work
Option 4. A proper amount of metal can be removed from the trigger lever face. This should be done by someone with lots of patience and/or has done this before.

I have performed options 2, and 4 but routinely Option 4 as the lever is being set up specifically for the specific Luger. I have not had one yet I couldnt fix but I still have a few good years left in me and anything can happen.
One word of caution, if you try to BEND MOST trigger levers (they are hardened) they will break for sure and you will be back to square one.
If you reach an empass, Lugerdoc or I can fix your Luger.

[joewitt_99]

Hi, thanks again.

I decided to replace the "replacement" trigger lever with the original and guess what IT ENGAGED THE FIRING PIN. I was able to **** the pistol 2-3 times until it stopped working. I also was able to plainly see the sear bar spring "flex" when i would pull the trigger. The problem is that it will only work for 1-3 times and then it stops.

I can also get the pistol to engage the firing pin by lightly tapping the barrel a few times.

Have noticed a few key issues:

It appears that someone had attempted to grind the old trigger lever in the past because it is ground at a slight chamfer on the end that engages the sear (sounds like your point #4 was being attempted thor). There is also a significant scratch on the sear bar that would seemingly have been created by the trigger lever.

It seems rather academic that I grind some of the face off of the old trigger lever. Would you say the previous approach of cutting it at an angle makes sense? I guess it is a little touch and go in terms of how much to take off.

Thanks Joe

[Thor]

Good luck Joe, that is about all the help I can be I'm afraid. If the repair job gets muffed, I dont really want to be blamed for "doing it over the phone" if you know what I mean. Good luck with your project. I would be glad to do this for you but I would need the entire gun.

[joewitt_99]

Hi, thanks thor. You have been a big help, I can understand your concern. At least I am now working on something that will make a difference. I think I will try "polishing" the replacement trigger lever because it doesn't work at all now and I have nothing to lose there if I screw it up.

thanks again

Joe

[Thor]

Your welcome!