Date of Manufacture?

[Vboy]

I have a Luger with replaced parts. The replaced barrel extension is dated 1937, but the toggle shows BYF, which I believe indicates that the original gun was produced by Mauser in 1941 or 1942. With help from this site I have just identified the serial number suffix as Z. So the original serial number was 39xx Z. Can anyone tell me what this indicates regarding time of manufacture?

Thanks,

Vboy

[Frank]

Hi Jake! Your Luger, 39xx z, could have the possibilities of being completed in 1937, 1939 or 1941. No other choices exist!! Since you think it was either 1939 or 1941, then if it was completed in December of either year.

My estimates are based on a uniform production schedule, so a tolerance of a month, give or take is possible. Actually, the pistol could have been in the build process late in the year and completed in the first few weeks of the following year.

Hope this helps!

[Vboy]

I thought that the byf on the toggle meant that the Luger was made by Mauser in either 1941 or 1942. Am I wrong? The date over the chamber is 1937, but that date is on the replaced barrel extension (receiver?) The serial number on this replaced part has been X'ed over and renumbered to match the serial number (39xx) on the other parts.

Thanks,

Vboy

[Frank]

Jake, you are correct, the byf were made in 1941 and 1942. If the chamber date is 1937, it could be a 1937 with a 1941 toggle that is marked byf. If the front of the frame number and the receiver number are the same, then the toggle was likely switched. If they do not match, then you have a parts pistol!

[Vboy]

I believe it is clear that this pistol is Mauser, byf, serial number 39xx Z(?) and that the barrel marked Made in Germany and the receiver/barrel extension, on which the s.n. has been changed, have been replaced. I knew this when I bought the pistol. I wanted a "shooter," since I want to fire my guns and not merely display them. By the way, this Luger is accurate and lots of fun to shoot. I have been advised that the gun was reconditioned in Suhl 1945-50 for use by occupation forces. Since it is in excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition, it is perfect for my purposes.

Thanks,

Vboy

[RockinWR]

VBoy,
* The Frame determines the pistol; not the toggle or cannon.
* As you have pointed out, this is a gun composed of disparite parts.
* If the frame is a Mauser Military piece made in '41 or '42, the left upper side panel aft of the side plate & above the grip will be marked with a "P.08". The frame will also have a hump at the rear of the ears within which the receiver extension & main toggle pin ride. The front of these "ears" cam open the toggle.
Respectfully,
Bob

[Vboy]

The frame and all other visible parts except barrel and receiver are numbered 39xx, so there is no doubt about who made the original pistol (Mauser). Toggle is marked byf and has the last two numbers of the serial number on the frame.

Vboy

[Lugerdoc]

Vboy, Your luger sound very much like many of the recently imported DDR reworks, most of which have the brown plastic "Bullseye" type grips. If it was used by occupying troops, which I doubt, they would have been Russians in E.Germany. TH

[Frank]

Jake, Bob makes a good point. If the left side of the frame is marked P.08, then it's most probably a 1941. If not, and it has the Mauser Hump, it's either a 1937 or 1939!!

[Vboy]

Left side is marked P.08. I am not sure what you mean by the hump, but the toggle is flat between the knobs and the rear sight.

Vboy

[Vboy]

I forgot to mention: The grips are pristine walnut, beautifully made and checkered. I have not removed them to check for markings. I am afraid I might damage them. Once I remove the screws at the bottom, what is the best way to get the grip panels off without harming them?

Thanks,

Vboy

[Dwight Gruber]

Vboy,

Do not take off the left grip if you do not have to.

To take off the right grip, remove the magazine, remove the grip screw, and gently press the grip up with your fingertip from the inside. Of course this will allow you to check the right grip for markings, but you may find that the pertinent markings on the left grip (if there) are visible through the frame.

If you must take off the left grip, remove the grip screw and press upward from the inside as with the right grip. Be -very careful-, this grip does not lift directly off, but will rotate a bit, away from the thumb safety lever, and out from under the left frame panel. Be equally careful when you put it back.

--Dwight

[Vlim]

Hi,

I believe this luger was discussed on Jan Still's forum.

That one has all hallmarks of a post-war Suhl rework, but it's proof is a 1945-1950 Suhl proof (N above shield, rather than the post-1950 crown/N).

All in all, it's a bit too early to be a VoPo, re-issue to Allied-controlled GERMAN police (something quite different from allied police) is therefore most likely.

Sort-of a pre-VoPo..

[Vboy]

You are correct and I thank you again for identifying the Suhl mark. I suspect that the barrel and receiver were replaced at Suhl, as you suggest, 1945-50. The receiver was apparently taken from another Luger, judging from the changed serial number, but the barrel, marked Made in Germany, must have been post-war. Right?

Vboy

[Vlim]

Hi,

If the barrel has no other markings than the Suhl proof (and a later added caliber/made in germany marking for export purposes) and the muzzle-ring is roughly finished, rather than smooth it is almost certainly a post-war version from the same era.

If they simply took the barrel off another gun, I'd expect presence of the original markings (like serial number, proof and diameter) or signs of removal of them.

Last option is either some sort of 'spare barrel' from pre-war/war origins or a later replacement. Then it would be up to pre-war standards, with no markings except a 1945-50 Suhl proof (or no Suhl proof, if it's a later replacement).

[Vboy]

There is no Suhl mark on the barrel. The only mark on the barrel is underneath and reads Made in Germany. The barrel is beautifully made and perfectly fitted to the receiver. The barrel is nicely blued and about the same color as the rest of the pistole, but glossier. One would expect this since the gun shows some light wear whereas the barrel looks new. There are no witness marks on the barrel or receiver. The muzzle ring is smooth and perfect. The refurbishing seems to be have done very competently. The Suhl marks (N over Suhl shield) are on the toggle, side of the frame and side of the receiver.

Thanks.ol

Vboy

[Johnny C. Kitchens]

I see you made it over here Vboy. I hope you found this site more helpful that the other site...