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02-10-2001, 09:24 PM

Hi all,

I just finished reading all the posts on this subject and I have a different opinion about it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with replaceing a #31 holdopen with the correct #21 holdopen on a Mauser byf. The #31 is not the original holdopen for the gun, and who knows who or why it was replaced. If I can find the correct original #21 holdopen and make the gun all matching, I feel I have done nothing wrong, and certainly have not forged or faked this gun, in my opinion. Who is to say that this original #21 holdopen is not the original that went to my gun? I do have a problem with forging and counterfieting though, and I feel there is a lot of difference between trying to restore my byf 41 back to an all matching peice by finding an original holdopen and replacing it, than by making one or re-stamping one. A reproduction or re-stamped one is a fake and a counterfiet in my opinion, but an original holdopen just makes the gun correct. A lot of this is the intent of the person swapping the parts. If the intent is to restore the gun back to an all matching piece with an matching part that is of the correct manufacture and time frame, I see nothing wrong with this. If his intent is to deliberately fool someone with the wrong manufacture or time frame, then that is fraud and counterfieting in my opinion.

One example would be any 1940 code 42 or any 41/42 with black plastic grips. Are these real? Experts say now that no black plastic grips were issued until June of 1941, which makes it about the T block. So, are all earlier guns fakes with black plastic grips? Does a replacement part make this a fake? What about black plastic magazines? They are in a lot of guns that were originally issued with numbered magazines, so does this make the gun a fake or a counterfiet, a fraud?

I feel that the point about refinishing guns is much more important and should be more concerning to collectors, than replacing mismatched parts. There are some excellent refinished guns out there now, that are almost non-detectable as to being so close to the original finish in both color and wear, that even the most advanced collectors are being fooled at times. Without a high powered mag and a strong light, you aren't able to see the blemishes and who runs around gun shows with this equipment? Sure, anyone can tell the 100% finished stuff, but these fakers or refinishers aren't all dumb, and they do put some wear back on them.

02-10-2001, 09:24 PM	#11
bill munis Guest Posts: n/a	Re: New collector pitfalls Hi all, I just finished reading all the posts on this subject and I have a different opinion about it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with replaceing a #31 holdopen with the correct #21 holdopen on a Mauser byf. The #31 is not the original holdopen for the gun, and who knows who or why it was replaced. If I can find the correct original #21 holdopen and make the gun all matching, I feel I have done nothing wrong, and certainly have not forged or faked this gun, in my opinion. Who is to say that this original #21 holdopen is not the original that went to my gun? I do have a problem with forging and counterfieting though, and I feel there is a lot of difference between trying to restore my byf 41 back to an all matching peice by finding an original holdopen and replacing it, than by making one or re-stamping one. A reproduction or re-stamped one is a fake and a counterfiet in my opinion, but an original holdopen just makes the gun correct. A lot of this is the intent of the person swapping the parts. If the intent is to restore the gun back to an all matching piece with an matching part that is of the correct manufacture and time frame, I see nothing wrong with this. If his intent is to deliberately fool someone with the wrong manufacture or time frame, then that is fraud and counterfieting in my opinion. One example would be any 1940 code 42 or any 41/42 with black plastic grips. Are these real? Experts say now that no black plastic grips were issued until June of 1941, which makes it about the T block. So, are all earlier guns fakes with black plastic grips? Does a replacement part make this a fake? What about black plastic magazines? They are in a lot of guns that were originally issued with numbered magazines, so does this make the gun a fake or a counterfiet, a fraud? I feel that the point about refinishing guns is much more important and should be more concerning to collectors, than replacing mismatched parts. There are some excellent refinished guns out there now, that are almost non-detectable as to being so close to the original finish in both color and wear, that even the most advanced collectors are being fooled at times. Without a high powered mag and a strong light, you aren't able to see the blemishes and who runs around gun shows with this equipment? Sure, anyone can tell the 100% finished stuff, but these fakers or refinishers aren't all dumb, and they do put some wear back on them.