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Kyrie · 02-10-2001, 07:30 PM

Hi Bill!

I'm not ignoring you and you have raised some excellent points, but most of these are also discussed in the discussion between John and myself.

One point you raise that is not covered, and I think is very worthy of note, is contained in this, "...It is interesting to think of how the hobby would have evolved if the parts were not serialized...".

US military arms fall into this category, and the response of collectors of US arms is interesting. As there are no small parts numbered the issue of swapping numbered parts doesn't come up. Also, just about *all* US military M1's (Garands and carbines) have been rebuilt many times (unlike most Lugers).

Within this context US collectors strive for "correct" rifles, where "correct" means all the parts were supplied by the same manufacturer. Parts swapping to accomplish this seems to be tolerated, if not praised. Pity the US collector - he had no way to judge originality. So he is stuck with "correct", and the understanding this doesn't mean "original". Truly original M1's are so rare that any piece represented as all original is instantly suspect!

Even in this more tolerant atmosphere, there are problems. Heaven help the fellow who presents a rifle as "all correct" if it has even one incorrect part! They too have their own version of fakery and fraud. Luger collectors worry about people swapping parts and renumbering parts. US collectors worry about the people churning out exact duplicates (right down to the cartouches!) of M1 stocks!

Anyway - it's interesting to see how different, and in some way show similar, the conditions are when collectors don't have serialized parts. Circumstances require US collectors to have lower standards, but they have similar goals and problems. We truly are all in this together

Very best,

Kyrie

02-10-2001, 07:30 PM	#9
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: I understand your points - but... Hi Bill! I'm not ignoring you and you have raised some excellent points, but most of these are also discussed in the discussion between John and myself. One point you raise that is not covered, and I think is very worthy of note, is contained in this, "...It is interesting to think of how the hobby would have evolved if the parts were not serialized...". US military arms fall into this category, and the response of collectors of US arms is interesting. As there are no small parts numbered the issue of swapping numbered parts doesn't come up. Also, just about all US military M1's (Garands and carbines) have been rebuilt many times (unlike most Lugers). Within this context US collectors strive for "correct" rifles, where "correct" means all the parts were supplied by the same manufacturer. Parts swapping to accomplish this seems to be tolerated, if not praised. Pity the US collector - he had no way to judge originality. So he is stuck with "correct", and the understanding this doesn't mean "original". Truly original M1's are so rare that any piece represented as all original is instantly suspect! Even in this more tolerant atmosphere, there are problems. Heaven help the fellow who presents a rifle as "all correct" if it has even one incorrect part! They too have their own version of fakery and fraud. Luger collectors worry about people swapping parts and renumbering parts. US collectors worry about the people churning out exact duplicates (right down to the cartouches!) of M1 stocks! Anyway - it's interesting to see how different, and in some way show similar, the conditions are when collectors don't have serialized parts. Circumstances require US collectors to have lower standards, but they have similar goals and problems. We truly are all in this together Very best, Kyrie