Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehat
Ok here are the photos of the US test Eagle stock. First time I had my hands on it. Photos clearly show period sherifs of the 1900 era. Halos around all stamp deformations. Age looks absolutely authentic.
(I think that Mike cleaned a little too hard over the numbers....when he got the stock....to read the numbers...but you still can see the age halos 
1) gun was not stamped in Germany..was stamped by Springfield armory when they asked to see one of those New fangled Ideal stocks...made for Calvary types.... like them. And yes it was in the 1903-4 period AFTER THE TEST...why? Well...lets see...I GUESS.....They KEPT THE GUN And did not throw it in the trash can! Of course it was on hand for further tests etc.
2) Serifs of the 1900 period are present...so thats a fact to be seen. THese are America style...not european fonts added to grips, stock and mag. The gun has DWM fonts.
3) Sure its conjecture...thanks for that kindness...Not a nice generalization. Without document everything is conjecture...so we have to go off the metal marks and proofs....Like all LUGERS!...how many posts here are based on conjecture over metal proofs..about all of them? Trying to keep my cool here guys.
40 Kind suggestion: Be glad you have these photos and gun to look at....would the forum not want to find a discovery like this?...just because you dont like the guy that discovered it...or his exasperation over honest logic?). Man, cant even get a hand up out of a hole.
I know no one is going to be convinced...because I am not in the club. But its real and this is a great find now that the matched stock has been found.
Even if you dont think its one of the first 2 US test guns listed in Springfield paper above...it a great US military historical find..since its clearly owned and tested by Springfield armory...AT SOME TIME!!!
And if dont think this is one of the 2 test guns..then FACT: there is another 1900 luger with Springfield Armory markings out there in the 5600 range...see my point....see how silly this is?
Anyway I am too old to fight over bull****. I talked with Ron Wood by phone....he said he has more confidence now that the stock has been found with the exact same 1900 era serifs and age halos.
That enough for me.
Just want to document that Mike and I found them both and brought them together again after 120 years! (and from the same Estate in NH). Found gun in 2013 at Omaskgee auction....(with no mention what was under the grips) and mike found the stock at the estate of a famous soup family in NH.
This should be a cause for celebration....not hate. |
After observing and comparing the characteristics of the Ideal stock, it is safe to say that it is genuine and once upon a time linked/connected to the M1900 American Eagle Luger serial #5673 which is in Ron's collection. It is exciting for both items to be reunited, now being able to tell a better story with their corresponding markings. I do not think that some one would go into all the time and effort to fabricate a fake for a Luger pistol that its exact whereabouts was unknown.
I suppose that the pistol was delivered to the Ideal Manufacturing Company as a sample and afterwards delivered to an US Board for evaluation or inspection which could explain the government markings and the corresponding serial numbers. Being the only pistol with such markings to survive, I do not think that it would have been part of the US Trial Luger shipments, but it does play an indirect role in the procurement by the US Government for a semi-automatic pistol and a holster that offered a dual purpose.
Based on the features of both items - and both being original - I believe that my opinion is logical and reasonable, but it seems that Ideal stock was not accepted for purchase by the military because a separate pair of smooth grips had to be switched and attached to the pistol which was impractical. For both items to remain in the same region and rejoined after a century adds more knowledge to Lugers and their history.
The mentality of most collectors and experts tends to revolve around value/money and often unfair judgements are made. I have been a victim of similar remarks on one of the rarest items in my personal collection, but there will always be a few bad people trying to trip up our hobby with their ignorance or their books which still spread wrong information. It can often be unfair, but there is a proverb from the Bible that says "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).
Happy collecting and the quest for knowledge,
Albert