LugerForum Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Those Mysterious Forty-fives

Steve D · 08-03-2012, 10:11 PM

Still consider myself a new-comer to the Luger fraternity, am fascinated by the .45s and would like to ask a few questions of the experts:

1. Is the current thinking / research that the Aberman gun provenance is genuine? As a beginning student, I think it is highly suspect. I know it is not now believed to be the elusive number 2 trials pistol - first and foremost due to the fact that it is not the correct caliber, and second that there is a host of physical differences between it and the archive photo of the number one gun.

Most authors report a provenance of the Aberman gun back to the Springfield Armory from whom it was supposedly purchased in 1913. But, why would the Springfield Armory have this gun in the first place? The Aberman gun was either manufactured for the .45 ACP, or re-barreled for the cartridge after the trials were over and forgotten. It seems logical to me that if there was a second trials pistol, a dejected and defeated Luger would have simply stuffed it in his bag after the trials and returned to Germany, thus ending any involvement of the US Armory in the .45 Luger.

2. Is there any documented provenance of the second, believed-to-be-genuine .45, the so-called "Norton" gun? It seems logical that if the DWM Tool Room made a handful of .45s, that a survivor or two could migrate to the US, but I would like to know how far back the documented history of this gun goes? When and why did it get to Canada?

3. Do modern researchers believe there are any others out there, hidden by elusive collectors?

To me, these two .45s certainly remain some of the most mysterious guns ever. I wonder if in Luger's wildest imagination, he could have thought that the .45s would evoke such fascination by students 100 years after the fact.

08-03-2012, 10:11 PM	#1
Steve D User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 23 Thanks: 7 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	Those Mysterious Forty-fives Still consider myself a new-comer to the Luger fraternity, am fascinated by the .45s and would like to ask a few questions of the experts: 1. Is the current thinking / research that the Aberman gun provenance is genuine? As a beginning student, I think it is highly suspect. I know it is not now believed to be the elusive number 2 trials pistol - first and foremost due to the fact that it is not the correct caliber, and second that there is a host of physical differences between it and the archive photo of the number one gun. Most authors report a provenance of the Aberman gun back to the Springfield Armory from whom it was supposedly purchased in 1913. But, why would the Springfield Armory have this gun in the first place? The Aberman gun was either manufactured for the .45 ACP, or re-barreled for the cartridge after the trials were over and forgotten. It seems logical to me that if there was a second trials pistol, a dejected and defeated Luger would have simply stuffed it in his bag after the trials and returned to Germany, thus ending any involvement of the US Armory in the .45 Luger. 2. Is there any documented provenance of the second, believed-to-be-genuine .45, the so-called "Norton" gun? It seems logical that if the DWM Tool Room made a handful of .45s, that a survivor or two could migrate to the US, but I would like to know how far back the documented history of this gun goes? When and why did it get to Canada? 3. Do modern researchers believe there are any others out there, hidden by elusive collectors? To me, these two .45s certainly remain some of the most mysterious guns ever. I wonder if in Luger's wildest imagination, he could have thought that the .45s would evoke such fascination by students 100 years after the fact.