LugerForum Discussion Forums - View Single Post

John D. · 02-26-2001, 04:35 PM

While I don't have any reference books handy - I'll share with you what I think I know so far (sorry I missed this post earlier today - usually, I pick out "Krieghoff posts" pretty quickly on the Board I'll fill in some other info a little later tonight. As some know, personally, I rather enjoy Krieg's above some other the other Luger collectibles - but I have to tell you right up front - yours is indeed a little strange in some of the markings and their placement. That being said...

You wrote: "Barrel- Crown N laying on its side at the 11 o'clock position (looking from the chamber).." Yes - that would be correct on a few Krieg's - a commercial re-work (1920 and some of those in '23). This should be slightly larger then a DWM marked german Nitro proof typically found under the barrel or on the upright version of a '20 commercial (LH).

You Wrote: "A Luftampt 2 at the 1 o'clock position. No serial number on bottom of barrel.." What you are rerring to is a LWA2 acceptance marking, I believe (Luftwaffe Acceptance) - these did change in size and shape throughout the G, S, and chamber date struck Kriegs. If you have a photo - I could possibly determine the date of that proof for you...

You Wrote: "...Chamber- **** Here is the kicker- A Krieghoff logo (Anchor HK) and just Suhl under it.." ON THE CHAMBER??? I am not aware of any stamps that HK used on the chamber with their logo??? They should all be on the toggle - and again - with just SUHL - would be an early military stamping.. The transition to "KRIEGHOFF SUHL" was partway through the "late S" model - but again - this should be on the toggle..???

You Wrote: "...The same logo as on the 'S' code Krieghoffs (just not on the toggle..." OK - there are a variety of S codes - Early, Turkish production, Mid S, Transitional, Late S - all of them have slight variations to the logo you are referring to.....

You Wrote: "...Receiver- Crown N on its side (crown toward the barrel) No Serial number (left side).." Would also be correct for a rework or commercial.....

You Wrote: "...2 (Two) Luftampts on right side..." Would be correct - each was applied at various stages of acceptance - BUT not for commercial, for military - unless the Military accepted a commercial??..??

You Wrote: "...Toggle- Blank top and a "4" under the rear link and a Luftampt under the front link." Again - points to a commercial rework - some were blank toggles....

You Wrote: "...Bolt- "Geladen" on extractors left side.." this is correct....

You Wrote: "...Frame- Serial Number (55XXp) under the barrel, last 2 numbers are only found under the takedown lever, inside the side plate, on the top left of the trigger, Nowhere else." This would be correct.....

You Wrote:"...Grips- Very thick walnut with larger checkering, inside both grips have a Wa-?65 waffenampt..." I believe the Turkish contract (50 units *I think*!) had a very course grip pattern. Let me check tonight and see what I can dig out, OK???

You Wrote:"...I have looked at some books on the Wartime lugers and I can't find one with these markings.." Frankly - I'm not surprised. Most more gerneral Luger reference books simply copy parts of Gibson's books - if they cover them at all... Let me see what I can dig out for you on this - and refine or add to what I've written above...

The most interesting aspect is the Chamber marking - do you have a photo of that?? If it is original, then it could have been done by the Krieg factory as a special "presentation" or something similiar. If it can be verified, then your piece would be very unique...

Best to you - and welcome to the Board!!!

John D.

02-26-2001, 04:35 PM	#2
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Hi Bob.... While I don't have any reference books handy - I'll share with you what I think I know so far (sorry I missed this post earlier today - usually, I pick out "Krieghoff posts" pretty quickly on the Board I'll fill in some other info a little later tonight. As some know, personally, I rather enjoy Krieg's above some other the other Luger collectibles - but I have to tell you right up front - yours is indeed a little strange in some of the markings and their placement. That being said... You wrote: "Barrel- Crown N laying on its side at the 11 o'clock position (looking from the chamber).." Yes - that would be correct on a few Krieg's - a commercial re-work (1920 and some of those in '23). This should be slightly larger then a DWM marked german Nitro proof typically found under the barrel or on the upright version of a '20 commercial (LH). You Wrote: "A Luftampt 2 at the 1 o'clock position. No serial number on bottom of barrel.." What you are rerring to is a LWA2 acceptance marking, I believe (Luftwaffe Acceptance) - these did change in size and shape throughout the G, S, and chamber date struck Kriegs. If you have a photo - I could possibly determine the date of that proof for you... You Wrote: "...Chamber- **** Here is the kicker- A Krieghoff logo (Anchor HK) and just Suhl under it.." ON THE CHAMBER??? I am not aware of any stamps that HK used on the chamber with their logo??? They should all be on the toggle - and again - with just SUHL - would be an early military stamping.. The transition to "KRIEGHOFF SUHL" was partway through the "late S" model - but again - this should be on the toggle..??? You Wrote: "...The same logo as on the 'S' code Krieghoffs (just not on the toggle..." OK - there are a variety of S codes - Early, Turkish production, Mid S, Transitional, Late S - all of them have slight variations to the logo you are referring to..... You Wrote: "...Receiver- Crown N on its side (crown toward the barrel) No Serial number (left side).." Would also be correct for a rework or commercial..... You Wrote: "...2 (Two) Luftampts on right side..." Would be correct - each was applied at various stages of acceptance - BUT not for commercial, for military - unless the Military accepted a commercial??..?? You Wrote: "...Toggle- Blank top and a "4" under the rear link and a Luftampt under the front link." Again - points to a commercial rework - some were blank toggles.... You Wrote: "...Bolt- "Geladen" on extractors left side.." this is correct.... You Wrote: "...Frame- Serial Number (55XXp) under the barrel, last 2 numbers are only found under the takedown lever, inside the side plate, on the top left of the trigger, Nowhere else." This would be correct..... You Wrote:"...Grips- Very thick walnut with larger checkering, inside both grips have a Wa-?65 waffenampt..." I believe the Turkish contract (50 units I think!) had a very course grip pattern. Let me check tonight and see what I can dig out, OK??? You Wrote:"...I have looked at some books on the Wartime lugers and I can't find one with these markings.." Frankly - I'm not surprised. Most more gerneral Luger reference books simply copy parts of Gibson's books - if they cover them at all... Let me see what I can dig out for you on this - and refine or add to what I've written above... The most interesting aspect is the Chamber marking - do you have a photo of that?? If it is original, then it could have been done by the Krieg factory as a special "presentation" or something similiar. If it can be verified, then your piece would be very unique... Best to you - and welcome to the Board!!! John D.