LugerForum Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Black Grips- Again

bill m · 07-05-2001, 01:37 PM

Hi Marvin,

First off let me say that I know you only contributed this as an aid to all collectors. Second, I feel this is a "prank", and because someone like Weiss reportedly said it, you are taking it as fact. This is not fact for a couple of reasons.

(1) This is simply a way to make almost any byf a two magazine rig, which is not right. By saying that you could have any byf from the q block on with black plastic grips and black plastic magazines is just simply not correct and is only trying to make a complete rig out of a gun that was originally issued with two serial numbered matching magazines and wood grips. If you want to believe this and you think it is going to make your gun more valueable, then by all means do it, but serious collectors are not going to accept this as fact and are going to stick by what the data sheets tell us, and that is up until the U block, possible the T block, all byf's had wood grips and serial numbered magazines.

(2) Someplace there is a directive stating that black plastic grips were to be used in or after June of 1941. If you go through the letter blocks -- N & O = Jan, P = Feb, Q =March, R = April, S = May, T = June, U = July ect., so perhaps there is some black plastic grips in the T block, but not before, as they would only be replacements.

(3) Look at the magazines and tell me when you start seeing black plastic magazines and it will be around the U block of all original vet bring back guns. Data sheets say that byf's up until the U blocks had serial numbered magazines. I'm sure that in production they did not skip numbers and do 10 and then issue 10 black plastic's and then tool up and serial number another 10 and so forth. I do not have any recorded complete rigs before the U block with 2 matching serial numbered magazines with Black Grips. They are all wood grips up until the U block and then you have black plastic grips with 2 matching serial numbered magazines in the U block.

Again, everyone has an opinion, but the facts according to recorded Luger information just does not back Weiss's statement. This is a good "fish story", and it goes right back to the hoax that all black was SS and ect. -- SS Black Widow -- which is not correct either. This is just a way to try and spruce up a byf. The only way that we can understand how all this took place and in the order that it took place is to study large Luger data sheets and see how they are recored, and when things started appearing on a regular bases, and in this case, the grips and the magazines did not start showing up on a regular bases until the U block of the byf 41's. That is totally not true about things getting in a mess in war time and anything goes. There was an order to things and it was followed. They just did not mix everything up to turn out a gun. If that was the case, you would have all kinds of mis-matched Lugers, as just any way to turn out a gun.

Again, no offense meant, but we all have to use our heads and think about this stuff, and not believe everything that is printed or someone said. They make mistakes also and get confused and mixed up from time to time also. Just my observations, so believe what you want to, but the data sheets do not support Weiss's statements.

07-05-2001, 01:37 PM	#7
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Black Grips- Again Hi Marvin, First off let me say that I know you only contributed this as an aid to all collectors. Second, I feel this is a "prank", and because someone like Weiss reportedly said it, you are taking it as fact. This is not fact for a couple of reasons. (1) This is simply a way to make almost any byf a two magazine rig, which is not right. By saying that you could have any byf from the q block on with black plastic grips and black plastic magazines is just simply not correct and is only trying to make a complete rig out of a gun that was originally issued with two serial numbered matching magazines and wood grips. If you want to believe this and you think it is going to make your gun more valueable, then by all means do it, but serious collectors are not going to accept this as fact and are going to stick by what the data sheets tell us, and that is up until the U block, possible the T block, all byf's had wood grips and serial numbered magazines. (2) Someplace there is a directive stating that black plastic grips were to be used in or after June of 1941. If you go through the letter blocks -- N & O = Jan, P = Feb, Q =March, R = April, S = May, T = June, U = July ect., so perhaps there is some black plastic grips in the T block, but not before, as they would only be replacements. (3) Look at the magazines and tell me when you start seeing black plastic magazines and it will be around the U block of all original vet bring back guns. Data sheets say that byf's up until the U blocks had serial numbered magazines. I'm sure that in production they did not skip numbers and do 10 and then issue 10 black plastic's and then tool up and serial number another 10 and so forth. I do not have any recorded complete rigs before the U block with 2 matching serial numbered magazines with Black Grips. They are all wood grips up until the U block and then you have black plastic grips with 2 matching serial numbered magazines in the U block. Again, everyone has an opinion, but the facts according to recorded Luger information just does not back Weiss's statement. This is a good "fish story", and it goes right back to the hoax that all black was SS and ect. -- SS Black Widow -- which is not correct either. This is just a way to try and spruce up a byf. The only way that we can understand how all this took place and in the order that it took place is to study large Luger data sheets and see how they are recored, and when things started appearing on a regular bases, and in this case, the grips and the magazines did not start showing up on a regular bases until the U block of the byf 41's. That is totally not true about things getting in a mess in war time and anything goes. There was an order to things and it was followed. They just did not mix everything up to turn out a gun. If that was the case, you would have all kinds of mis-matched Lugers, as just any way to turn out a gun. Again, no offense meant, but we all have to use our heads and think about this stuff, and not believe everything that is printed or someone said. They make mistakes also and get confused and mixed up from time to time also. Just my observations, so believe what you want to, but the data sheets do not support Weiss's statements.