[John Sabato]

Hi Jan, <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

I am not sure why you opened a new post instead of continuing the original message thread, but I would respectfully request that you read my latest remarks in the original message thread on this subject before any reply.

As for me, or anyone else, helping to expose the existence of a couple of dozen faked Navy Lugers... you will find my comments in that thread as well.

I would be more than glad to help, but to do so I have to have real ammunition, and not words that go "bang...bang..." Please SHOW ME THE MONEY.

You, Brad S. and a couple of others have mentioned that you have direct personal knowledge of the modern manufacture of Navy toggles, and the boosting of some commercial model Lugers to appear to be Navy Lugers, but neither I, nor the forum have been provided a single strand of evidence of any kind... no physical examples... no photographs illustrating the differences between the real vs. fakes, no substantiatable facts. All we have so far is words... "I heard about..." "I was told..." "I know about..." "I once saw..."

NO ONE has said "I know someone who got burned and owns one, and they are willing to provide (at least) photographic evidence of the boosting you have told us about to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else..."

I don't question that Mr. Gibson may have in indeed told YOU years ago about the two Lugers in his book... but without questioning your intent, or your knowledge, ...that story is still hearsay... This is totally unlike Brad's "facts" that the same luger appears on two different pages of a book to which many of the members have access and can witness for themselves. Those facts are evidently indisputable... in fact, no one HAS disputed them. Those photos appear to be the same... now we have to discover WHY with facts and not suggestion.

How did Mr. Gibson make this statement about the Lugers in his book "long ago"? Did he publish an article? Was he interviewed? Would he come here himself as well and join this discussion? or does his lack of public comment mean the same thing that you are implying about Mr. Shattuck's public silence? Jan, we just don't need any more words... or speculation, we need more facts like the photos in Gibson's book.

I cannot, and do not, speak for Ralph S., nor can I speak for Brad S., or Randall G. ...and neither can you.

My only appeal to ALL members here is to base the case on the FACTS and not to speculate about what certain or circumstantial evidence MIGHT or could mean.

With more than 360 registered members from the world-wide Luger collecting community we should be able to produce FACTS...( NOTE:
all the words that apear in all caps are not SHOUTS [img]smile.gif[/img] they are just there for emphasis)

With welcome I open the floor for civil discussion and comments that have bearing on the points of my posts here or elsewhere in the forum...

kind regards,

John Sabato