Jan,
<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> I take exception to your comments about a "defense" of the .45 caliber carbine in the responses to your 'paranoia" posting... mine in particular.
Please revisit my words quoted here carefully because there is no defense of either the carbine or the dealer here:
[quote] The largest controversy that has arisen in the last year or so concerns the .45 caliber Lugers. There has been much speculation about them, their numbers, their locations, and their origin. Your posts have not been particularly subtle expressing, that in your opinion, that the newly discovered and made public .45 caliber carbine currently in the possession of Ralph Shattuck is likely a fraud. I submit that it is difficult to justify a position on either side of this argument. Just because no previous research has ever documented the existence of such a piece, doesn't mean that one could not have been made and kept out of the public eye until now...nor is it impossible that such a piece could have been tediously fabricated and artificially aged to look genuine.
I have not seen any credible evidence that has been made public on this forum to substantiate either idea.
Could it be a fraud? Could it be genuine? The evidence is not yet in... will it ever be in? Unless authenticated documentation is discovered and made public, I doubt that anyone will ever be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the gun is either genuine or a fake...
I know of no forensic tests that could be performed without damage to the gun and it's accessories that could provide that proof. Without evidence to the contrary, I can only conclude that the gun exists... it's authenticity or fraudulence cannot be proven at this point in time, and until such time as it can be proven one way or the other, it is unique in the world of Lugers... it wouldn't matter which dealer possessed it... It is currently one of a kind
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This was not a defense, but a criticism that the authenticity of the item has previously been disparaged without evidence of any kind. There is no evidence one way or the other on whether this gun is genuine. Yet there seems to be a theme amongst long time collectors that if they never heard it was possible, then it couldn't possibly be so...
I believe that the due process of the passage of time will provide substantive evidence for one argument or the other... and I also don't feel that anyone will step forward and buy this item until that happens...
Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware) has been a prudent standard practice for sales transactions since the very first sale ever took place. If people have questions about something they are thinking about buying... They can ask more than just the dealer of the item, they can ask knowledgeable folks here on this forum.
If they have questions about how a long distance (or in this case, an internet) transaction can safely be accomplished, they can ask...
If they don't know any better than to ask several sources about something they have no in-depth knowledge about before they fork over their money... Then they shouldn't be buying anything...
I don't believe that anyone on this forum will sit idly by while unscrupulous practices are taking place. But there is a right way and a wrong way to provide a warning.
Advice is freely available for the asking about how to determine the authenticity of Lugers and Luger parts on the forum and how to protect yourself against authenticity mistakes and fraud... And the advice that is provided doesn't have to have anything to do with any particular person or dealer.
Admittedly fraud can happen in any sales context, but IMHO it is no more rampant in the Luger collecting field than in any other field of collecting...
This forum is in the business of establishing the truth about the history, manufacture and use of the Luger pistol... Nothing more, and nothing less. The information that is exchanged on this forum is for the benefit of all luger enthusiasts whether or not they are collectors. The lugerforum is neither the internet or gun auction police.
If you see something wrong about some item being sold or offered for auction? Or if you have a good tip on how someone can keep from being fooled by a fake? You are free to state what you feel is wrong and base it on known fact, not supposition, and not hearsay...
but it is unethical and improper to allege that just because an item is being sourced from a specific dealer that it has been "boosted" or faked. To do so makes you no better than a person you are accusing of some form of impropriety...
As SGT Joe Friday on the Dragnet TV sercies used to say years ago... "Give me the facts Maam, just the facts..."
Second hand experiences or opinion and other forms of hearsay should carry no weight in this context or on this forum when it comes to personalities...
Comments are invited... <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />