[John Sabato]

Hello Jan,

Since I know that John D. is busy, please allow me to attempt address your concerns one at a time.

There is no threat of closure for the new board... The old board format precluded accountability for posting, this board and membership rules does not. To participate in this new forum you can't be anonymous. You must supply credible identification credentials (a real first and last name) that will be public and a valid email address that will remain private except to the administrators for the site. Membership is approved on that basis. If you don't supply valid information in your registration, you are sent a polite message advising your of why your membership was declined and offered the chance to correct the situation.

Just for the record, there have only been 5 memberships declined out of the 306 currently registered, and that is because the registrants have not replied to their declination message with appropriate credentials.

The costs of operating the forum are all paid by John D. as a personal contribution to the hobby of Luger collecting. He is the owner of record of the Internet Domain name Lugerforum.com, and the site is hosted on his equipment, and internet connection that he operates for other business reasons where he makes his living. He is not a firearms dealer.

The site is not financially supported by contributions from any source except his own pockets. And a grand and generous gesture it is in my opinion. He has no other expectations or motives other than to foster the exchange of good information on the history and use of the Luger pistol. There is no profit motive because there is no profit. There is no commercial advertising accepted, and the only sales that take place are via classified ads placed by members and these are free as well.

John D. took on the responsibility of hosting the Lugerforum that was started by John Chapman when the original free discussion board that was based in Taiwan became a speed and accessibility problem. Several long term members proposed the movement of the board and testing of the new facilities began in November of 2000 and the Lugerforum.com opened it's pages to the public in 2001 under the competent webmastership of Dok...who is still the webmaster of the site as well as an adminsrator of the discussion forums. all efforts to operate the site are provided at the personal time and expense of the owner, the administrators and moderators. There is no compensation other than the gratitude of the members.

The old board closed not just because of the flames that were out of control, but also because of statements being made about dealers that had serious legal implications... John D. had been contacted by at least one lawyer regarding things that were being stated in public on the forum about his client. That situation necessitated the closure of the anonymous forum and establishment of the current moderated format.

The only censorship here that has or will take place is where comments jeopardize either the forum or members of the forum. The only postings that have been deleted, to my knowledge involved a debate about a particular member's Swiss Navy Luger. That was done at the discretion of the moderator of that forum moderator...

Other posts that have been deleted included duplicate posts that were made by accident by a member.

The only message threads that have been locked to my knowledge include official announcements, and one thread that was speculating on the identity of "the shadow" on the old board. I terminated that discussion because it involved personalities and was completely off topic and did nothing to further either the forum or the hobby. Whoever was the identity behind the "shadow" can no longer post anonymously and neither can anyone else...

There is no official or unoffical allegence to any gun dealer by this forum. Every member has their own opinions about the dealer known to traffic in Lugers... the problem lies in translating that opinion to facts that are of use to others... It is a narrow line that must be walked so that the forum can be held non-accountable for things said in this medium about dealers.

I will try to state the "policy" if you can call it that in the simplest of terms:

While fraud can happen in any sales context, it is no more rampant in the Luger collecting field than in any other field of collecting historical objects... This forum is in the business of establishing the truth about the history and use of the Luger pistol... Nothing more, and nothing less. This information that is exchanged is for the benefit of all luger enthusiasts whether or not they are collectors. We are not the internet or auction police. BUT, if a member sees something wrong about a Luger or accessories that is being sold or auctioned, Or has a good tip on how a person can keep from being fooled by a fake or fraudulent merchandise? They are free to state what they feel is wrong about the merchandise, BUT it must be based it on known facts, not supposition, nor hearsay, and and not some previous transaction that they may have heard about. If there is cause for speculation about the authenticity of an item... just state the facts that are known and let those interested do their own research... For a distinguished collector (such as yourself for example) were to make inflamatory statements without factual basis... and it were not challenged, then the uninitiated might be inclined to accept that type of bias as fact. This is what the forum must avoid. The truth is always welcome here... Slanderous innuendo is not, nor is ungrounded character assassination. This forum used to endorse suppliers of Lugers and accessories and books, but it became quickly apparent that to do so was not in the best interests of forum.

I do not know how long you may have lurked on the old discussion board before you made your first post, but if you have been a constant reader during the last 3 years it should be apparent to you that the forum members as a whole attempt to provide an unbiased viewpoint on questions brought for discussion.

The receptiveness of some forum members to well intended advice is an individual thing... The job of the many individual forum moderators, and the 3 adminstrators like myself, is to do the best job we can to officially keep the forum as an entity neutral to these biases and to halt any flame wars that might erupt because they are non productive...

The indivudual forum moderators were chosen for their willingness to serve and their demonstrated strength of character over time.

The largest controversy that has arisen in the last year or so concerns the .45 caliber Lugers. There has been much speculation about them, their numbers, their locations, and their origin. Your posts have not been particularly subtle expressing, that in your opinion, that the newly discovered and made public .45 caliber carbine currently in the possession of Ralph Shattuck is likely a fraud. I submit that it is difficult to justify a position on either side of this argument. Just because no previous research has ever documented the existence of such a piece, doesn't mean that one could not have been made and kept out of the public eye until now...nor is it impossible that such a piece could have been tediously fabricated and artificially aged to look genuine.

I have not seen any credible evidence that has been made public on this forum to substantiate either idea.

Could it be a fraud? Could it be genuine? The evidence is not yet in... will it ever be in? Unless authenticated documentation is discovered and made public, I doubt that anyone will ever be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the gun is either genuine or a fake...

I know of no forensic tests that could be performed without damage to the gun and it's accessories that could provide that proof. Without evidence to the contrary, I can only conclude that the gun exists... it's authenticity or fraudulence cannot be proven at this point in time, and until such time as it can be proven one way or the other, it is unique in the world of Lugers... it wouldn't matter which dealer possessed it... It is currently one of a kind.

As to your comments about being paranoid... I can only repeat the two old jokes about such a thing:

1- Just because you say you are not paranoid, doens't mean that nobody is after you... [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

2- "I am not paranoid, but everybody thinks I am..." [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Thanks for your inquiry Jan. If you or any other member has any other questions about the operation of this forum, or if you think I have failed to answer your questions please don't hesitate to contact me either privately or publicly here on the forum. We will do the best we can to answer your questions.

My best to you...