LugerForum Discussion Forums - View Single Post

mrerick · 05-02-2021, 02:56 PM

The 50 cal. ammunition was a very old and now obsolete military round. He explains in the video that it was very likely over charged. There were no obstructions in the barrel of the gun, and it fed normally prior to the catastrophic failure.

In the USA, we have a standards organization called SAAMI which publishes specifications for ammunition and firearm chambers. This includes testing of commercial ammunition to pressure standards. When a manufacturer makes a new firearm, one of the last things done prior to shipment is to "proof" the firearm using an overpressure round. This is done commercially in the United States.

In Europe, there is a similar organization called CIP. They publish similar standards for ammunition and firearms. In Europe, the majority of proof testing of firearms is done by governments. This is why Lugers have the various proof marks from government proof houses, and firearms made for export may have proof marks done by the manufacturer.

SAAMI and CIP coordinate their work.

In Europe, ammunition is also marked by proof houses, as approved through a relationship with CIP Type Approval.

Note that when our WW-I and WW-II era firearms were made, these standards organizations didn't exist, and much of the proof standards were established by manufacturers and government agencies in each individual nation working together. The same goes for the ammunition of that era. And don't forget that much of the ammunition made prior to the 1940's (and 1980's in the Eastern Block nations) used corrosive primers.

Each of the standards organizations publishes standards as free to download PDF documents.

https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/tdcc_public

https://saami.org/technical-informat...ami-standards/

The CIP site has a great group of videos on the procedures involved in firearm proofing.

If you ever decide to become a reloader, you need to become familiar with these dimensional and pressure standards. Note that too much powder charge in a cartridge is not the only potential cause of overpressure. This can happen easily with under charged cartridges because the bullet can have difficulty smoothly entering the leade of the barrel and engaging it's bullet's ogive in the barrel's rifling. In fact, most cartridges have multiple pressure peaks as the are discharged, travel into and through the barrel.

This isn't mentioned as a potential cause of the catastrophic failure you witnessed, but it's a distinct possibility for aging ammunition that has sustained internal damage to the powder charge. Since he was using aged military factory rounds, and he didn't know the storage conditions over the years it was stored, I suspect that this may also have been the cause of the failure.

05-02-2021, 02:56 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,925 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,140 Times in 1,520 Posts	The 50 cal. ammunition was a very old and now obsolete military round. He explains in the video that it was very likely over charged. There were no obstructions in the barrel of the gun, and it fed normally prior to the catastrophic failure. In the USA, we have a standards organization called SAAMI which publishes specifications for ammunition and firearm chambers. This includes testing of commercial ammunition to pressure standards. When a manufacturer makes a new firearm, one of the last things done prior to shipment is to "proof" the firearm using an overpressure round. This is done commercially in the United States. In Europe, there is a similar organization called CIP. They publish similar standards for ammunition and firearms. In Europe, the majority of proof testing of firearms is done by governments. This is why Lugers have the various proof marks from government proof houses, and firearms made for export may have proof marks done by the manufacturer. SAAMI and CIP coordinate their work. In Europe, ammunition is also marked by proof houses, as approved through a relationship with CIP Type Approval. Note that when our WW-I and WW-II era firearms were made, these standards organizations didn't exist, and much of the proof standards were established by manufacturers and government agencies in each individual nation working together. The same goes for the ammunition of that era. And don't forget that much of the ammunition made prior to the 1940's (and 1980's in the Eastern Block nations) used corrosive primers. Each of the standards organizations publishes standards as free to download PDF documents. https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/tdcc_public https://saami.org/technical-informat...ami-standards/ The CIP site has a great group of videos on the procedures involved in firearm proofing. If you ever decide to become a reloader, you need to become familiar with these dimensional and pressure standards. Note that too much powder charge in a cartridge is not the only potential cause of overpressure. This can happen easily with under charged cartridges because the bullet can have difficulty smoothly entering the leade of the barrel and engaging it's bullet's ogive in the barrel's rifling. In fact, most cartridges have multiple pressure peaks as the are discharged, travel into and through the barrel. This isn't mentioned as a potential cause of the catastrophic failure you witnessed, but it's a distinct possibility for aging ammunition that has sustained internal damage to the powder charge. Since he was using aged military factory rounds, and he didn't know the storage conditions over the years it was stored, I suspect that this may also have been the cause of the failure. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.