[Sieger]

Kyrie,

I appreciate your response above and have uncovered additional, very valuable, information regarding it. This additional information is directly on point; that being, the standards to which 9mm NATO ammunition is loaded.

Please review the following materials, all of which are available on the internet.

NATO STANAG No. 4090 (Edition 2), STANDARDIZATION AGREEMENT, SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION (9mm PARABELLUM).

This somewhat inclusive agreement lays out standardization requirements for: the cartridge, the chamber and barrel, and technical performance specifications governing design and acceptance of NATO 9mm ammunition. Please read through this it in its entirety.

Please note under AIM ...to ensure functional interchangeability of this ammunition on the battlefield".

Please also note the ratification and implementation dates on the various NATO member countries.

NATO SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION INTERCHANGEABILIY VIA DIRECT EVIDENCE TESTING (one of your cites to me above).

Here we are given an insight into the actual tests and procedures used, the various facilities used and the various standards required. Without passing these stringent tests, the NATO interchangeability (Proof Mark) can not be applied. In fact, future failure of a given lot to meet these same stringent requirements will cause the removal of this mark. Please read this short publication in its entirety.

NATO EPVAT TESTING

Therein is explained and described the three major world standards for testing ammo: NATO EPVAT (as used for NATO member testing) , SAAMI (as used in the U.S.) and CIP (as used in Europe). By far and away, the NATO EPVAT is the most inclusive testing standard, as terminal affect, verses shooter's safety only, is also thoroughly tested.

It is important to note that pressure is tested using totally different methods for the aforementioned three distinct testing standards. This fact has proven to be point of much confusion! Please read through this in its entirety.

SAAMI's webpage, under TECHNICAL DATA SHEET, UNSAFE FIREARM-AMMUNITION COMBINATIONS

Here we find, on page 3, that they warn not to fire 9mm NATO Military ammo through firearms chambered for 9mm Luger (Parabellum). Please read through these SAMMI warnings in there entirety.

TM 43-0001-27 TECHNICAL MANUAL, ARMY AMMUNITION DATA SHEETS, SMALL CALIBER AMMUNITION, FSC 1305, CHAPTER 12, 9mm CARTRIDGES, PAGES 12-3,5 &6

Please take note of the pressure measurement warning carefully noted in the middle of page 12-3. Here, we are warned that mid case pressures (SAAMI and CIP testing methods) may be 8,000 to 10,000 higher than case mouth testing procedures (NATO EPVAT testing method).

Please also note that M882 U.S. NATO ball ammunition, is standardized with a 112 grain bullet, shot from an EPVAT test barrel, at 1,263 fps, at 15 feet from that barrel. Please note that case mouth pressure figures are quoted here. Usage IS authorized in the M9 pistol.

The commercial ammo listed on page 12-3 lists a 115 grain bullet, at 1,125 fps, at 15 feet from an EPVAT test barrel. Please note that mid case pressure figures are quoted here. Usage is NOT authorized in the M9 pistol.

WINCHESTER'S BOX LABEL WARNING REGARDING 9MM NATO AMMO.

On the box labels I have read on Winchester 9mm NATO ammo, sold through commercial channels, the following is warned..."These cartridges are loaded to military velocity and pressure; average pressure is 10% to 15% higher than industry standard pressure for 9mm Luger."

Given that Winchester is using a standardized method of testing (SAAMI standards) for all ammo sold by it, and the fact that they should know about the products they are selling, the conclusion they have stated should be obvious to anyone.

CONCLUSIONS.

I believe both Winchester's warning statement, as well as, the other substantial authority as cited above.

THE NATO PROOFED AMMO I HAVE SHOT THROUGH MY LUGERS HAS CAUSED BREACH BLOCK SLAP, WHICH WILL EVENTUALLY DISTROY A LUGER!!

FIRE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!


Sieger