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Dwight Gruber · 05-27-2004, 10:20 AM

First, continued thanks to everyone who has participated.

After working with and considering the data a bit, I've decided that I am interested in more than just the proof marks, and more than just American Eagles. These guns represent only a part of the Commercial serial number range, and from such a limited sample one cannot get an overall picture of early Lugers.

So, I am asking for more information, from an expanded vaariety of Lugers. In addition to American Eagles, I am looking for Commercial, Swiss Commercial 1900 and 1906 (-not- the Swiss military contract series), 1900 Bulgarian, 1906 Navy Commercial, and anything else 1900-1906 which came from the Commercial serial number series.

The additional information I am looking for, from 1900 model: -full- serial number, proof marks or absence of same, Swiss cross on the barrel, whether the grip safety is wide (full grip strap width) or narrow (half-width), which type of thumb safety lever (type 1, flat-checkered; type 2, raised checkered; type 3, raised fluted), where the takedown lever is numbered (right end, left face, bottom), and if the gun is GERMANY marked.

From 1902 model: -full- serial number, proof marks or absence of same, whether the grip safety is wide or narrow, which type of thumb safety lever, where the takedown lever is numbered, and if the gun is GERMANY marked.

From 1906 model: -full- serial number, proof marks or absence of same, if the gun is 9mm, and if the gun is GERMANY marked.

As before, I will maintain anonymity of the samples. Please send your information to mailto:dwightg@pacifier.comdwightg@pacifier.com</a>

Below you will find the results of the survey thus far. I have tried to find a format which will work with the Forum and make sense. The information is drawn from many different sources, not all of which provide all the characteristics I seek. The vertical hash marks represent No Data.

--Dwight

........................................................................ ..

1900
#--------proof------+----------palm----------------safe---------------lever#

3xx S-------|------yes----------|----------------Type 1-----------------|-----------
51x S-------|------yes-------Narrow----------------Type 1--------------End--------
5(55?)S-----|------yes-------Narrow?---------------Type 1---------------End-------
6xx S-------|------yes-------Narrow---------------Type 1--------------End--------
9xx S-------|--------|---------|------------------Type 3------------------|----------

2001 C----no------|-------------|----------------------|-----------------------|---------
2002 AE---no-----no-----------|------------------------|-----------------------|----------
2004 AE---no------|-------------|----------------------|-----------------------|---------
2007 AE---no------|-------------|----------------------|-----------------------|---------
2011 AE---no------|-------------|----------------------|-----------------------|---------
2019 AE---no-----no-----------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2021 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2025 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2070 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2086 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2104 AE---no-----yes------Narrow-------------Type 2----------------End-----
2128 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2132 AE----|------yes----------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2136 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2146 AE---no-----yes------Narrow-------------Type 2----------------End------
2167 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
21(75)AE--no-----yes----------|--------------------Type 2----------------End------
2180 AE----|------|------------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2182 AE----|------|------------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2189 AE---no-----yes----------|---------------------Type 2------------------|---------
2190 AE----|-----|------------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2199 AE---no-----yes---------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------
2461 AE----|------|------------|------------------------|-----------------------|---------

36xx C----BUG----no--------Narrow---------------Type 1-----------(bottom?)-
37xx S----BUG----no----------|---------------------Type 1-----------(bottom?)-
38xx S-----|-------yes---------|---------------------Type 3-----------(bottom?)-
40xx C----BUG----no----------|---------------------Type 1-----------(bottom?)-
44xx C----BUG----no----------|---------------------Type 1-----------(bottom?)--GERMANY

50xxC-----BUG----no-----Narrow---------------Type 2--------------Face?----

6074 TE----|---------|------------|------------------------|------------------------|---------
6671 TE----|---------|------------|------------------------|------------------------|---------
6761 TE----|--------no-----------Narrow-------------Type 2------------------|---------

7050 TE----|---------|------------|------------------------|------------------------|-----------
7094 TE----|---------|------------|------------------------|------------------------|-----------
7431 TE----|---------|------------|------------------------|------------------------|-----------
7554 TE----|---------|------------|------------------------|------------------------|-----------
7559 TE----|---------|------------|------------------------|---------------------Face-------

#----------proof----+----------palm----------------safe---------------lever#

8444 AE---no-------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
8528 AE---no-------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
86xx AE---no-----no----------|---------------------Type 2-------------------|-----------
8937 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
8950 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
8951 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
8977 AE---no-----yes----------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------

9346 AE---no-----no-----Narrow---------------Type 2---------------Bottom----
9506 AE---no-------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
9856 AE---no-------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------

10373 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
10849 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
109xxAE----no----no----------|---------------------Type 2 --------------(end?)------

132xx C-----no----no----------|---------------------Type 3-------------(bottom?)--
13310 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
13452 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
13499 AE---no-----no-------Wide----------------Type 3--------------bottom--GERMANY
13619 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
13664 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------

14055 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
14765 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
148xx AE---no----no----------|---------------------Type 3------------------|------------

18336 AE----|--------|------------|-------------------------|------------------------|-----------
185xx C----no-----no-------Wide-----------------Type 3------------------|-----------
18808 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
18903 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------
18982 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------

19080 AE---no------|------------|------------------------|-------------------------|-----------

1902
#---------------proof-------------palm------------------safe-----------------lever#

224xx AE---------no---------------|---------------------Type3-------------------|----------
22443 AE---------no---------------|-------------------------|------------------------|----------
22498 AE---------no---------------|-------------------------|------------------------|----------
225xx C -----------|-----------------|-------------------------|------------------------|----------
226xx AE---------no--------------|----------------------Type3-------------------|----------
22639 AE---------no---------------|-------------------------|------------------------|----------
227xx AE---------no---------------|---------------------Type2-------------------|----------
22849 AE---------no---------------|-------------------------|------------------------|----------
23233 AE--------BUG-------------|-------------------------|------------------------|----------

1906
#------------proof

25707 AE------no----------9mm
265xx AE------no----------9mm
28029 AE------no
28067 AE------no
28288 AE-----BUG
28676 AE------no----------9mm
28866 AE------no----------9mm

301xx AE------no
30627 AE------no
311xx AE------no
31309 AE------no
315xx AE------no
31883 AE------no
34680 AE-----BUG
35069 AE------no
35134 AE------no
35439 AE------no
36088 AE------no
36203 AE------no
36637 AE------no (c/N on toggle)
38338 AE------no----------9mm

417xx C------BUG---------9mm
45791 AE-----BUG
459xx AE------no
46237 AE--------|---
46305 AE-----BUG
47877 AE-----BUG
48504 AE-----BUG----------9mm
48710 AE-----BUG

51xx AE-------c/N-----------9mm
53212 AE-------c/N----------9mm
54267 AE-------c/N----------9mm
54679 AE-------c/N----------9mm
54824 AE-------c/N
55051 AE-------c/N

63158 AE-------c/N
632xx AE-------c/N
63352 AE-------c/N
641xx AE-------c/N----------9mm
66524 AE-------c/N (Spy Luger)
670xx AE--------|---
68xxx AE-------c/N
68646 AE--------c/N

Commercial
AEmerican eagle
TEst eagle
Swiss commercial 1900
Bulgarian 1900
NCavy commercial 1906
Swiss commercial 1906

05-27-2004, 10:20 AM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	More American Eagle Proof Survey First, continued thanks to everyone who has participated. After working with and considering the data a bit, I've decided that I am interested in more than just the proof marks, and more than just American Eagles. These guns represent only a part of the Commercial serial number range, and from such a limited sample one cannot get an overall picture of early Lugers. So, I am asking for more information, from an expanded vaariety of Lugers. In addition to American Eagles, I am looking for Commercial, Swiss Commercial 1900 and 1906 (-not- the Swiss military contract series), 1900 Bulgarian, 1906 Navy Commercial, and anything else 1900-1906 which came from the Commercial serial number series. The additional information I am looking for, from 1900 model: -full- serial number, proof marks or absence of same, Swiss cross on the barrel, whether the grip safety is wide (full grip strap width) or narrow (half-width), which type of thumb safety lever (type 1, flat-checkered; type 2, raised checkered; type 3, raised fluted), where the takedown lever is numbered (right end, left face, bottom), and if the gun is GERMANY marked. From 1902 model: -full- serial number, proof marks or absence of same, whether the grip safety is wide or narrow, which type of thumb safety lever, where the takedown lever is numbered, and if the gun is GERMANY marked. From 1906 model: -full- serial number, proof marks or absence of same, if the gun is 9mm, and if the gun is GERMANY marked. As before, I will maintain anonymity of the samples. Please send your information to mailto:dwightg@pacifier.comdwightg@pacifier.com</a> Below you will find the results of the survey thus far. I have tried to find a format which will work with the Forum and make sense. The information is drawn from many different sources, not all of which provide all the characteristics I seek. The vertical hash marks represent No Data. --Dwight ........................................................................ .. 1900 #--------proof------+----------palm----------------safe---------------lever# 3xx S-------\|------yes----------\|----------------Type 1-----------------\|----------- 51x S-------\|------yes-------Narrow----------------Type 1--------------End-------- 5(55?)S-----\|------yes-------Narrow?---------------Type 1---------------End------- 6xx S-------\|------yes-------Narrow---------------Type 1--------------End-------- 9xx S-------\|--------\|---------\|------------------Type 3------------------\|---------- 2001 C----no------\|-------------\|----------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2002 AE---no-----no-----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|---------- 2004 AE---no------\|-------------\|----------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2007 AE---no------\|-------------\|----------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2011 AE---no------\|-------------\|----------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2019 AE---no-----no-----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2021 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2025 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2070 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2086 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2104 AE---no-----yes------Narrow-------------Type 2----------------End----- 2128 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2132 AE----\|------yes----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2136 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2146 AE---no-----yes------Narrow-------------Type 2----------------End------ 2167 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 21(75)AE--no-----yes----------\|--------------------Type 2----------------End------ 2180 AE----\|------\|------------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2182 AE----\|------\|------------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2189 AE---no-----yes----------\|---------------------Type 2------------------\|--------- 2190 AE----\|-----\|------------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2199 AE---no-----yes---------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 2461 AE----\|------\|------------\|------------------------\|-----------------------\|--------- 36xx C----BUG----no--------Narrow---------------Type 1-----------(bottom?)- 37xx S----BUG----no----------\|---------------------Type 1-----------(bottom?)- 38xx S-----\|-------yes---------\|---------------------Type 3-----------(bottom?)- 40xx C----BUG----no----------\|---------------------Type 1-----------(bottom?)- 44xx C----BUG----no----------\|---------------------Type 1-----------(bottom?)--GERMANY 50xxC-----BUG----no-----Narrow---------------Type 2--------------Face?---- 6074 TE----\|---------\|------------\|------------------------\|------------------------\|--------- 6671 TE----\|---------\|------------\|------------------------\|------------------------\|--------- 6761 TE----\|--------no-----------Narrow-------------Type 2------------------\|--------- 7050 TE----\|---------\|------------\|------------------------\|------------------------\|----------- 7094 TE----\|---------\|------------\|------------------------\|------------------------\|----------- 7431 TE----\|---------\|------------\|------------------------\|------------------------\|----------- 7554 TE----\|---------\|------------\|------------------------\|------------------------\|----------- 7559 TE----\|---------\|------------\|------------------------\|---------------------Face------- #----------proof----+----------palm----------------safe---------------lever# 8444 AE---no-------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 8528 AE---no-------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 86xx AE---no-----no----------\|---------------------Type 2-------------------\|----------- 8937 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 8950 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 8951 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 8977 AE---no-----yes----------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 9346 AE---no-----no-----Narrow---------------Type 2---------------Bottom---- 9506 AE---no-------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 9856 AE---no-------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 10373 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 10849 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 109xxAE----no----no----------\|---------------------Type 2 --------------(end?)------ 132xx C-----no----no----------\|---------------------Type 3-------------(bottom?)-- 13310 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 13452 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 13499 AE---no-----no-------Wide----------------Type 3--------------bottom--GERMANY 13619 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 13664 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 14055 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 14765 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 148xx AE---no----no----------\|---------------------Type 3------------------\|------------ 18336 AE----\|--------\|------------\|-------------------------\|------------------------\|----------- 185xx C----no-----no-------Wide-----------------Type 3------------------\|----------- 18808 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 18903 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 18982 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 19080 AE---no------\|------------\|------------------------\|-------------------------\|----------- 1902 #---------------proof-------------palm------------------safe-----------------lever# 224xx AE---------no---------------\|---------------------Type3-------------------\|---------- 22443 AE---------no---------------\|-------------------------\|------------------------\|---------- 22498 AE---------no---------------\|-------------------------\|------------------------\|---------- 225xx C -----------\|-----------------\|-------------------------\|------------------------\|---------- 226xx AE---------no--------------\|----------------------Type3-------------------\|---------- 22639 AE---------no---------------\|-------------------------\|------------------------\|---------- 227xx AE---------no---------------\|---------------------Type2-------------------\|---------- 22849 AE---------no---------------\|-------------------------\|------------------------\|---------- 23233 AE--------BUG-------------\|-------------------------\|------------------------\|---------- 1906 #------------proof 25707 AE------no----------9mm 265xx AE------no----------9mm 28029 AE------no 28067 AE------no 28288 AE-----BUG 28676 AE------no----------9mm 28866 AE------no----------9mm 301xx AE------no 30627 AE------no 311xx AE------no 31309 AE------no 315xx AE------no 31883 AE------no 34680 AE-----BUG 35069 AE------no 35134 AE------no 35439 AE------no 36088 AE------no 36203 AE------no 36637 AE------no (c/N on toggle) 38338 AE------no----------9mm 417xx C------BUG---------9mm 45791 AE-----BUG 459xx AE------no 46237 AE--------\|--- 46305 AE-----BUG 47877 AE-----BUG 48504 AE-----BUG----------9mm 48710 AE-----BUG 51xx AE-------c/N-----------9mm 53212 AE-------c/N----------9mm 54267 AE-------c/N----------9mm 54679 AE-------c/N----------9mm 54824 AE-------c/N 55051 AE-------c/N 63158 AE-------c/N 632xx AE-------c/N 63352 AE-------c/N 641xx AE-------c/N----------9mm 66524 AE-------c/N (Spy Luger) 670xx AE--------\|--- 68xxx AE-------c/N 68646 AE--------c/N Commercial AEmerican eagle TEst eagle Swiss commercial 1900 Bulgarian 1900 NCavy commercial 1906 Swiss commercial 1906