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mrerick · 05-20-2014, 09:31 AM

in the end, I think that comparing one smokeless powder based ammunition to another for cleanliness is subjective.

The cleanliness of ammunition relates to several things. The first is the primer used. This is where some of the more toxic chemicals come from since there are many variables in formulation of the explosive priming compound.

Next comes the powder itself. These can be single base or dual base, and incorporate a number of variables in chemistry and shape. The Wikipedia article on Smokeless Powder has some discussion of chemical formulation.

Finally, there is the surface of the bullet itself. Whether lubricated lead or some form of jacket or gliding metal, it will leave some residue.

The formula for loading factory ammunition isn't generally disclosed by manufacturers. It's fairly likely that someone like Winchester is going to use their own brand of bullets, primer and powder. A European ammunition manufacturer will probably source components in country and at least within the region.

In your posts, you mention you're cleaning your Luger barrel for 90 minutes, then field stripping and cleaning the rest of the gun. I can't imagine scrubbing things that long without doing damage at a microscopic level. It certainly will not improve the function, accuracy or preservation of your pistol.

Please understand that the salt bluing that Mauser used is a rather robust finish. Fe3O4 Magnetite (which is the black form of Iron Oxide that we call bluing) is a very hard and corrosion resistant molecule. While uniform if properly done, it doesn't 100% cover the surface of a firearm at a microscopic level.

in a 60 to 100 year old gun like your Luger, it's normal to see a mix of iron oxide types deep in the finish. In fact, you expect to see some Fe2O3 form of Iron Oxide (otherwise known as the red rust we're familiar with). If there isn't any, the gun is likely refinished.

If you do see active rusting areas (which eventually do lead to pitting) the rust should be removed. This is done using very fine steel wool that has been soaked in oil. Gentle and slow abrasion will remove the rust without damaging the bluing.

At a microscopic level, a gun barrel requires a certain level of lubrication to settle down. That includes some of the residue of the smokeless powder. This article has some good observations:

http://www.bordenrifles.com/Barrel_cleaning_edited.pdf

These people make some of the very best high precision rifle barrels, and also have some good advice:

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_...246-wp2558.htm

I use a commercial spray preserving oil after cleaning my guns lightly with Hoppes No.9 after shooting sessions. There are even times that I just run a Hoppes bore snake through the barrel and wipe down the action. I use a Hoppes preserving gun oil in the barrel after cleaning.

Hope that this is helpful. It certainly is exciting to have a new Luger. Take your time and enjoy it!

05-20-2014, 09:31 AM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	in the end, I think that comparing one smokeless powder based ammunition to another for cleanliness is subjective. The cleanliness of ammunition relates to several things. The first is the primer used. This is where some of the more toxic chemicals come from since there are many variables in formulation of the explosive priming compound. Next comes the powder itself. These can be single base or dual base, and incorporate a number of variables in chemistry and shape. The Wikipedia article on Smokeless Powder has some discussion of chemical formulation. Finally, there is the surface of the bullet itself. Whether lubricated lead or some form of jacket or gliding metal, it will leave some residue. The formula for loading factory ammunition isn't generally disclosed by manufacturers. It's fairly likely that someone like Winchester is going to use their own brand of bullets, primer and powder. A European ammunition manufacturer will probably source components in country and at least within the region. In your posts, you mention you're cleaning your Luger barrel for 90 minutes, then field stripping and cleaning the rest of the gun. I can't imagine scrubbing things that long without doing damage at a microscopic level. It certainly will not improve the function, accuracy or preservation of your pistol. Please understand that the salt bluing that Mauser used is a rather robust finish. Fe3O4 Magnetite (which is the black form of Iron Oxide that we call bluing) is a very hard and corrosion resistant molecule. While uniform if properly done, it doesn't 100% cover the surface of a firearm at a microscopic level. in a 60 to 100 year old gun like your Luger, it's normal to see a mix of iron oxide types deep in the finish. In fact, you expect to see some Fe2O3 form of Iron Oxide (otherwise known as the red rust we're familiar with). If there isn't any, the gun is likely refinished. If you do see active rusting areas (which eventually do lead to pitting) the rust should be removed. This is done using very fine steel wool that has been soaked in oil. Gentle and slow abrasion will remove the rust without damaging the bluing. At a microscopic level, a gun barrel requires a certain level of lubrication to settle down. That includes some of the residue of the smokeless powder. This article has some good observations: http://www.bordenrifles.com/Barrel_cleaning_edited.pdf These people make some of the very best high precision rifle barrels, and also have some good advice: http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_...246-wp2558.htm I use a commercial spray preserving oil after cleaning my guns lightly with Hoppes No.9 after shooting sessions. There are even times that I just run a Hoppes bore snake through the barrel and wipe down the action. I use a Hoppes preserving gun oil in the barrel after cleaning. Hope that this is helpful. It certainly is exciting to have a new Luger. Take your time and enjoy it! __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.