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John D. · 04-21-2002, 10:17 PM

Hi Dwight..!

Not to speak for Kyrie, as he is more then capable of speaking for himself, as does so quite eloquently - I think I know where he is coming from on this issue. That is the point that "anything" is collectable - in this case, we are talking about Lugers. Therefore - if someone "improves" the rendition of their current Luger - swapping parts or even a full restoration, it could be passed off in the future either knowingly or unknowingly - as an "unaltered original".

For example - there are some 'smiths capable of such restorations - John Martz, Gail Morgan, Thor - and handful of others whose work could be passed off in the future as an "original". In fact, I'm working following up on one such suspect Luger as we speak. Further, being all too familiar with Krieghoffs - there are some who would pass off an "original" as a "rework" that was done when parts swapping was easy and cheap, as Lugers were fairly inexpensive back in the â??50s and â??60s. For example â?? not long ago, some might take an HK Toggle and put it into a Chamber dated Mauser - and to the unsuspecting and uninformed â??collectorâ? - they now have purchased a "rare" Kreighoff. Some spurious fakes are even more difficult to detect, as in the Krieghoff world â?? several gunsmith became quite adapt at even flaming/resurrecting the â??thumbprintâ? on their â??restorationsâ? â?? and sideframe inscribed Kriegs were very popular for quite a time. All these â??restoredâ? Lugers do impact the current collector community.

I think the point Kyrie makes is valid - that if you change the aspects of your Luger to improve it to your own satisfaction, thatâ??s great!!! BUT, and at the same time - it needs to be noted somehow so that itâ??s not passed off as original in future generations. As how to do that, I'm not sure. I do know Thor puts is "viper" marks on his re-works (3 red dots) but I think in the collector community â?? itâ??s our responsibility to be sure that those same changes are note to that Lugerâ??s history, so it is not proffered as â??originalâ? in the future (off my soap-box). As for restoring what you have â?? I think its fine, as long as it is noted as a restoration, so that future collectors arenâ??t purchasing anything other then a restoration.

YMMV - IMHO....

04-21-2002, 10:17 PM	#15
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Re: Marney's Rules on Ethical Part Switching Hi Dwight..! Not to speak for Kyrie, as he is more then capable of speaking for himself, as does so quite eloquently - I think I know where he is coming from on this issue. That is the point that "anything" is collectable - in this case, we are talking about Lugers. Therefore - if someone "improves" the rendition of their current Luger - swapping parts or even a full restoration, it could be passed off in the future either knowingly or unknowingly - as an "unaltered original". For example - there are some 'smiths capable of such restorations - John Martz, Gail Morgan, Thor - and handful of others whose work could be passed off in the future as an "original". In fact, I'm working following up on one such suspect Luger as we speak. Further, being all too familiar with Krieghoffs - there are some who would pass off an "original" as a "rework" that was done when parts swapping was easy and cheap, as Lugers were fairly inexpensive back in the â??50s and â??60s. For example â?? not long ago, some might take an HK Toggle and put it into a Chamber dated Mauser - and to the unsuspecting and uninformed â??collectorâ? - they now have purchased a "rare" Kreighoff. Some spurious fakes are even more difficult to detect, as in the Krieghoff world â?? several gunsmith became quite adapt at even flaming/resurrecting the â??thumbprintâ? on their â??restorationsâ? â?? and sideframe inscribed Kriegs were very popular for quite a time. All these â??restoredâ? Lugers do impact the current collector community. I think the point Kyrie makes is valid - that if you change the aspects of your Luger to improve it to your own satisfaction, thatâ??s great!!! BUT, and at the same time - it needs to be noted somehow so that itâ??s not passed off as original in future generations. As how to do that, I'm not sure. I do know Thor puts is "viper" marks on his re-works (3 red dots) but I think in the collector community â?? itâ??s our responsibility to be sure that those same changes are note to that Lugerâ??s history, so it is not proffered as â??originalâ? in the future (off my soap-box). As for restoring what you have â?? I think its fine, as long as it is noted as a restoration, so that future collectors arenâ??t purchasing anything other then a restoration. YMMV - IMHO....