[mystical_tutor]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Hi Gary,

Well, this is becoming an interesting discussion, isn't it?

All of us that are responding to you are interested in being helpful. Clearly, I don't know you, yet I believe members here are sincere and accurate in the responses you've gotten.

I hope I have not sounded huffy in my replies. I do appreciate the efforts you and others are making to insure that I succeed in my mission.

Originally Posted by mrerick

As you've learned, the extremely rare variations of Lugers you have mentioned (Now including Navy Lugers; a Krieghoff; A Bulgarian Mauser and Thai art - not sure if that is a Luger or some other artwork) are priced at a premium above the run of the mill military Lugers most of us are lucky enough to own.

You've also learned about the widespread faking of rare premium priced Lugers. Part of faking them involves establishing a level of authenticity that will satisfy a buyer.

Not a new problem. I was just sad to hear that it is still so active. The problem was bad enough in my younger days as one of the most prolific mail-order sellers was often the pointed subject of such accusations. I would assume technology has made things harder to detect and easier to fake.

Originally Posted by mrerick

Also, from reading an earlier post, I understand you have a fairly good number of spare parts including those for Simson Lugers and others. As you now, Simson Lugers are even more rare than Krieghoffs.

A little miscommunication there. I think some of the parts I have, specially 1900 leaf springs were remanufactured by Simson or some other entity. I do not have any spare Simson parts that I know of. A couple spare Simson magazines and a spare Krieghoff mag, but no proofed parts for either. I was not aware that Simson guns were more rare than Krieghoff. The old numbers we had were 12K for Simson Company Lugers plus the military dated-2K plus the S dates which is more than all the Krieghoffs. Have those numbers been revised downword? I have not read Still’s book on that era.

Originally Posted by mrerick

The simple fact is that determining the authenticity of a rare Luger is a difficult thing. You cannot increase the cachet of a Luger by discussing it here on a board with experts, particularly without the ability to post detailed pictures. It is simply not possible to give you an opinion one way or the other on authenticity or value.

I would love to see your collectable Lugers verified as authentic, and re-enter the collecting community (which has grown considerably over the years). The simple fact is that everything you've mentioned is high value and should be evaluated by an expert.

You posted this:

"No one needs to know a SN to offer advice on value, unless that # is really unique or way out of some known range."

Actually, this is not correct. The only way to determine the authenticity of a very rare variation of Luger is to inspect it in person, in hand - and have the background to recognize what is right and wrong about it….

That is true, IMO. It is probably not going to happen with the pieces I have mentioned. Probably, the only person that will ever hold it and evaluate it is the person interested in buying it. If that is an expert, fine, if not, fine. I will not screw someone for money. As a Christian that is just not the way of my life.

The serial number thing seems to be a real sore point with some board members. I will again assert that, in general cases these numbers are not important until someone wants to own the piece. In the case of my 1914 commercial there is a difference because the number actually establishes what it is, along with a few other discriminators. In that case I would offer it as proof of what it is. My Cav test piece would be another such example. My Simson, my Swiss, unimportant, just one of many as are most of my other Lugers.

Originally Posted by mrerick

There are experts on this board that have done this many times over many years. To help the collecting community, people like Norm and Tom have compiled lists of guns they have authenticated. These are kept by serial number and description.

Recently, for example, a product of "Waffenfabrik Minneapolis" turned up with the exact same serial number of a known authentic example in Europe.

So, I sincerely hope that you have valuable and authentic Lugers, and am sorry that you have to part with them for financial reasons.

No reference books or online discussion can help develop a fair value estimate or confirm authenticity, with or without serial numbers or accurate photographs.

You should seek full value for your collectables. You should not compromise for estimates from gun show dealers, online forum participants or someone that approaches you by Email.

With very rare artifacts, it's best to get the opinion of experts that are recognized in the field. Even they can make mistakes, but you're more likely to learn the truth from them. They develop their expertise over decades of study, and do their work within the context of an extended community.

The investment they have in study, travel, artifact acquisition and time comes with a price. For that reason it is fair to pay them to authenticate and price a rare valuable collectable. Ultimately, you and a buyer will experience a much fairer transaction if you start with an appraisal.

I will take your word for that as I don’t know a soul on this board by reputation. I assume people here are knowledgable or I wouldn’t be spending time here.

You see, at one time I was an expert on Lugers. I corresponded regularly with Sam Costanzo and John Walter. I purchased/traded with people that were solid members of the collecting community, Don Hallock, William Drollinger, R.W. Stevens and others, Conversed with John Martz and Mike Krause. Won awards for “showing” Lugers at gun shows (an almost forgotten concept now). I practically had Costanzo’s book memorized.
That is all ancient history now and most all of my old friends are gone as will I be one day. Hopefully a lot of new information has come to light and many of those blank spots have been filled in. Most of my Lugers I have had for 30 years. I’m really not worried about authenticating them unless it becomes a specific issue with a potential buyer.

Thanks again for your interest and I hope I have addressed your concerns.

Gary