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John D. · 02-26-2002, 06:31 PM

Tim,

Thank you for sharing your view. Iâ??ll let folks draw their own assumptions from your post. I would only add a few details and insights you seem to have overlooked.

For example - you appear to have forgotten to mention that you had e-mailed Ralph an apology on Monday morning â?? well before your post to this forum. I happened to be on the phone with Ralph at the time, who was sincerely touched by your note. His comment to me was that it was probably a mis-communication, and he would speak to Nancy about using your deposit on another Luger of your choice OR refunding a majority of your deposit. Somehow â?? since you have a difficult time being consistent â?? I would think you have probably killed that option with your post later to this Forum that same day â?? fulfilling the threat you placed with him on Friday via e-mail. â??Being responsible for ones own actionsâ? is one of my favorite sayings, so if you donâ??t get satisfaction from Ralph on this issue, its your doing, certainly not his. In my experience, and I donâ??t believe Iâ??m alone â?? Ralph always does right by his customers, even when he puts himself against his own policies in doing so. In your case, it was closer then you know â?? but you â??got in your own wayâ?. Please, Tim - do finally take responsibility for your own actions. I am somewhat curious as to why you threatened Ralph Friday with a public post, sent an apology Monday morning - and then posted your diatribe Monday afternoon? Perhaps a detailed comment there could enlighten us - and let us know which was insincere, your apology or your post - as they are in opposition to each other?

Further â?? Iâ??ll let a total $625 deposit after a full year for a $3000 Luger speak for itself. My opinion is unchanged â?? that you shouldnâ??t ask or expect a dealer to finance a Luger you canâ??t afford. A dealer isn't your banker. I wonâ??t even bother trying to justify the Dealer Gross Margin and Cash flow you have cost a dealer during that entire year, nor try to explain why you won't take any accountability for those same losses - except to note that at the rate of $625 a year, the $3000 Luger would have been on â??lay awayâ? for almost six years? Your actions certainly do not portray those of a customer who can afford the purchase nor are serious about fulfilling their obligations in a purchase agreement to a dealer â?? certainly within their stated lay away periods?

You state: â??John, high exalted owner of the GRAND LUGER FORUM..â? By all means â?? please do go set up your own forum. You finance it. You program it. You host it. You set your own policies and then pay for it all each and every month. Itâ??s only several hundred dollars each month for this site alone. At the same time - then even someone like you can become its â??exalted ownerâ?, and as well, liable for itâ??s operation and content. Then, the folks that feel that they have been libeled by one-sided or skewed posts can contact *you* â?? and then you can spend your money on your own lawyers defending your right to operate your site. Certainly, I donâ??t force you to post here, but when you do â?? itâ??s a privilege, *and not your RIGHT* â?? and you are responsible for your own posts and their content and repercussions. A simple observance of some fairly straightforward, common sense rules are in order. If you have a difficult time understanding what those rules are â?? perhaps you should elect not to post here at all? Your choice â?? not mine. In the meantime â?? I would simply ask you donâ??t try to trivialize my role in trying to keep the legal ramifications to a minimum.

You Stated: â??Better READ THIS FAST, as I'm sure the thread will be deleated soon after Postingâ?. Nope â?? this thread will remain intact as is â?? as you know, I rarely delete threads. Iâ??m sure people will see it for what it is, which may be somewhat embarrassing to you. Fortunately, I donâ??t share that same concern. I feel as confident Ralph doesnâ??t share that concern of being the least bit embarrassed, either.

It will be interesting to see what the conversation is when we all meet at our hostsâ?? house in Arizona later this week â?? Ralph and Nancy Shattuck. My guess is that this subject may come up. But given your ability to diminish responsibility for your own actions - that probably wonâ??t embarrass you, either.

Good luck to you.

02-26-2002, 06:31 PM	#18
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 478 Thanked 517 Times in 129 Posts	Tim - I still really enjoy replies such as yours.. Tim, Thank you for sharing your view. Iâ??ll let folks draw their own assumptions from your post. I would only add a few details and insights you seem to have overlooked. For example - you appear to have forgotten to mention that you had e-mailed Ralph an apology on Monday morning â?? well before your post to this forum. I happened to be on the phone with Ralph at the time, who was sincerely touched by your note. His comment to me was that it was probably a mis-communication, and he would speak to Nancy about using your deposit on another Luger of your choice OR refunding a majority of your deposit. Somehow â?? since you have a difficult time being consistent â?? I would think you have probably killed that option with your post later to this Forum that same day â?? fulfilling the threat you placed with him on Friday via e-mail. â??Being responsible for ones own actionsâ? is one of my favorite sayings, so if you donâ??t get satisfaction from Ralph on this issue, its your doing, certainly not his. In my experience, and I donâ??t believe Iâ??m alone â?? Ralph always does right by his customers, even when he puts himself against his own policies in doing so. In your case, it was closer then you know â?? but you â??got in your own wayâ?. Please, Tim - do finally take responsibility for your own actions. I am somewhat curious as to why you threatened Ralph Friday with a public post, sent an apology Monday morning - and then posted your diatribe Monday afternoon? Perhaps a detailed comment there could enlighten us - and let us know which was insincere, your apology or your post - as they are in opposition to each other? Further â?? Iâ??ll let a total $625 deposit after a full year for a $3000 Luger speak for itself. My opinion is unchanged â?? that you shouldnâ??t ask or expect a dealer to finance a Luger you canâ??t afford. A dealer isn't your banker. I wonâ??t even bother trying to justify the Dealer Gross Margin and Cash flow you have cost a dealer during that entire year, nor try to explain why you won't take any accountability for those same losses - except to note that at the rate of $625 a year, the $3000 Luger would have been on â??lay awayâ? for almost six years? Your actions certainly do not portray those of a customer who can afford the purchase nor are serious about fulfilling their obligations in a purchase agreement to a dealer â?? certainly within their stated lay away periods? You state: â??John, high exalted owner of the GRAND LUGER FORUM..â? By all means â?? please do go set up your own forum. You finance it. You program it. You host it. You set your own policies and then pay for it all each and every month. Itâ??s only several hundred dollars each month for this site alone. At the same time - then even someone like you can become its â??exalted ownerâ?, and as well, liable for itâ??s operation and content. Then, the folks that feel that they have been libeled by one-sided or skewed posts can contact you â?? and then you can spend your money on your own lawyers defending your right to operate your site. Certainly, I donâ??t force you to post here, but when you do â?? itâ??s a privilege, and not your RIGHT â?? and you are responsible for your own posts and their content and repercussions. A simple observance of some fairly straightforward, common sense rules are in order. If you have a difficult time understanding what those rules are â?? perhaps you should elect not to post here at all? Your choice â?? not mine. In the meantime â?? I would simply ask you donâ??t try to trivialize my role in trying to keep the legal ramifications to a minimum. You Stated: â??Better READ THIS FAST, as I'm sure the thread will be deleated soon after Postingâ?. Nope â?? this thread will remain intact as is â?? as you know, I rarely delete threads. Iâ??m sure people will see it for what it is, which may be somewhat embarrassing to you. Fortunately, I donâ??t share that same concern. I feel as confident Ralph doesnâ??t share that concern of being the least bit embarrassed, either. It will be interesting to see what the conversation is when we all meet at our hostsâ?? house in Arizona later this week â?? Ralph and Nancy Shattuck. My guess is that this subject may come up. But given your ability to diminish responsibility for your own actions - that probably wonâ??t embarrass you, either. Good luck to you.