TIMOTHY CANNEY

As the owner of the forum, you asked for the details and facts regarding this posting, so I'll give you what you have asked for as the "owner" of the forum. This will be my last posting as I feel that I am no longer welcome here. First of all the details were left out(name, amount, specifics) for several reasons, not the least of which was an attempt to save all partys embarrassment and get objective answers/advice from the other forum members whose opinion I value. At no time did I attempt to or assume to "blackmail" anyone. Those who have taken the time to get to know me, know I would never do this to anyone, especially the dealer in question. I still have too much respect for him and the contributions he has made to this hobby. I will stand by this. I do not think that one action by another person makes that person, any less a valueable human being. The term "blackmail" was first mentioned, with regard to this matter in an E-Mail sent to me, by Ken Kontos, who had absolutely no business becoming involved in this matter. I tried as best as I could to keep this matter between the dealer and myself. When I could get no where towards the resolution of this matter with the dealer, I informed him that I would bring it to the forum for discussion, leaving out the names of the partys involved. I brought this to the forum, to get, as I stated, honest feedback, without any preconcieved biases either positive or negative regarding the dealer. It was never meant to be hurtfull, spitefull, or aimed at discrediting the dealer, as I don't think he set out to misrepresent anything intentionally, at least that is my impression. The circumstances are simple. The gun was represented at the time of sale as being of a higher grade than it was at the time of transfer. No malice, no evidence of intentional deception, no character defimation, just the above fact. The facts from my viewpoint as the buyer are as follows:


1) In February 2001, after successfully purchasing, two Lugers from Ralph Shattuck, I telephoned him to see if there was another piece for sale that he thought I might want. He stated that he had two "mint, unfired, unissued, perfect Swiss Lugers for sale"

2) As I did not yet have a Swiss Luger, especially in that condition, I asked him again if they were indeed as he stated. I was again told that they were of the highest quality, and were for the "advanced collector".

3) I asked if I could put one on Layaway, and stated that it would probably be a while longer to pay this one off as it was $3000.00 (the top end retail price for a mint Swiss Bern). His replied that I could take as long as I needed, and was in no rush.

4) I sent a down payment along with two custom made knives at no charge as a thank you for our friendship and the oppurtunity to put the gun on an extended layaway.

5) Upon reciept of the payment, Mr. Shattuck called to thank me and commented that the knives were beautiful and actually held a spot in his Luger display. I felt of course very honored by this.

6) As time went on, I made payments as I could, on the Luger and was under no impression at anytime that the layaway was creating any financial or other hardships.

7) In the fall of 2001, realizing that the layaway was longer than expected, I offered to begin to pay some interest on the remaining balance. Mr. Shattuck stated that this was not necessary, and considered me to be his friend.

At this point, I asked him to send me a copy of his Deputy Badge, as I was having a very special knife made for him. He sent the copy, but after several attempts the image would not fit into the handle nicely.

9) I continued to try and make a knife for him that he would be even proader of. Finally I got the idea to put a Luger in the handle and put to: and from: on the handle.

10) The knife was completed, and I called Mr. Shattuck to let him know, and asked him to reserve a table badge for me at the Kansas City Gun Show in late January. He stated it was his pleasure. I was excited to present the knife to him personally.

11) Shortly after this, he sent me an E-Mail, very politely asking when the Luger would be paid off. I stated that I would bring some things to sell in Kansas City, and planned to pick the Gun up there. Mr. Shattuck stated this was fine.

12) When I arrived at the show, I picked up my badge and found his table. Before I even looked at the gun I presented the knife to him. Needless to say he was pleased with it stating he "would show it off at the Luger gathering in March."

13) Then he took out the Swiss Bern, I had waited so long to get. I looked at it and my heart literally sank, when I saw the scratch on the frame extending down into the grip.

14) He asked what was wrong, and could tell that something was bothering me. I showed him the scratch and asked him if I could just get another gun in it's place. He got angry stating that he had had the gun on hold for me for such a long time and could have sold the gun several times over. I felt as low as the bellybutton on an ant! He stated "thats allright I'll just give you your money back". I asked him "you want me to be happy with the gun don't you" Mr. Shattuck didn't respond. I asked him later if he was mad. He said he wasn't and said goodnight and went to his hotel.

15) The next day I sat at his table and told him how I had felt bad all night. He stated he had reconsidered and would only give me my money back when he sold the gun, which he said wouldn't take very long. He stated we were still friends and this was just business. I agreed to this, knowing he was going to the Las Vegas Show the following weekend, and felt sure that he would surely sell it there.

16) He left early Sunday morning and I didn't hear from him until he returned from the Las Vegas Show the following week.

17) I E-Mailed him to ask how he did at the show. He said it was great, busy and he sold allot of guns. I re-emailed him to ask if he sold the Swiss Bern? He replied he didn't take it with him, and didn't plan on offering it for sale in the near future.

18) This is where things got messy to say the least. I honestly thought I would never see my money again. Mr. Shattuck got very angry. I demanded that I get my money back. He then stated I would only get a portion of the deposit back, and hoped it would take a year to sell the gun. It was at this point that I posted to the forum about not buying any Luger before looking at it first, and being carefull not to put high expectations on anyone regardless of their reputation. I was carefull not to mention anyone in particular, but got an e-mail from Mr. Shattuck, stating that I was referring to him.

19) Yes I was disappointed, and felt I deserved better treatment.

20) Last friday I E-Mailed Mr. Shattuck stating that on Monday I was going to post to the forum regarding this situation and see what other forum members thought should take place. I was very carefull not to mention any names, as I was trying to keep this somewhat confidential in hopes Mr. Shattuck would change his mind and refund my money. It is after all, MY MONEY. The bottom line is that the gun was not in the condition stated at the time of the purchase, when I was presented it at the time of transfer at the Kansas City Gun Show Period. I disagree that the gun was not purchased, it was, and I fully expected it to be in the condition stated, it wasn't period. I further resent the statement that I should not purchase guns I can't afford. You don't know me and it really isn't any of your business, John, high exalted owner of the GRAND LUGER FORUM. By the way the money at stake is $625.00 in deposit, it may not be much to some of you but it is an awfull lot to me. Had the gun been as stated, it would have been paid for. I hope this satisfies your curiosity as to the details. See no threats, blackmail, only disappointment. By the way Ralph, I encourage you to post your side of the story as I don't think it will be any different. If any of you have any questions feel free to ask me, and I will do my best to explain myself.


Thank You To All Who Have Shown Your Support!

Better READ THIS FAST, as I'm sure the thread will be deleated soon after posting.


My Very Best To You All! Another time!


Tim


Tim