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02-17-2002, 11:19 AM

Kyrie has done a fine job of explaining the "classic" definitions of "collector" and "shooter" Lugers. Let me also say that I have numerous times seen him help out other collectors, including novice collectors, on the LugerForum and elsewhere over the years. I very much appreciate the information and photos he has shared with me.

Definitions are only valid for those who accept them. When a majority of a given group choose not to accept a given definition, the definition is not valid for that group. Kyrie wrote "A mismatched Luger, or a Luger that has been refinished, has no collector value. It doesnâ??t matter how mismatched it may be, or how many times it has been refinished."

On 12/18/01 he wrote "Actually itâ??s taking a $300 shooter and making it look like a $1200 collector grade gun." On 1/23/02 he wrote "Refinished, value about $250 - $300. "Refinished, value about $250 - $400.

Reading this kind of thing, a novice collector could assume than an expert has stated that reblued "shooters" are worth only $250 and mismatched (by only one part) "shooters" are worth only $300."

In a friendly and intellectual way, I take issue with these definitions and values. Certainly they are valid for Kyrie as an individual. Probably they are valid for that group of collectors who collect only all original, all matching, 98 percent or better Lugers. But I seriously question the fact that they are valid for the group composed of people who have purchased Lugers in the last 30 years. I suspect they are not valid for the majority of LugerForum members.

Some will doubtless be saddened to hear that their otherwise pristine Lugers which have mismatched magazines are only worth $300. Thor would be saddened to learn that his refinished works of art are worth only $250. The lucky one who has a 1918 Spandau Luger with a mismatched firing pin would probably be upset to learn that it is worth only $300.

Take heart, fellow Lugerites! The true value of a Luger is what you can sell it for. Also, if you have a Luger you would not take $700 for, the value of that Luger to you is in excess of $700. You have just as much right to decide on your own valuation system as does Kyrie or anyone else.

As far as true value goes, I hereby promise to buy all the complete, functional, original finish Lugers I am offered for $300 each. I hereby promise to buy all the complete, functional, refinished Lugers I am offered for $250 each.

My major problem with the "classic" definitions is that those who collect only "perfect" Lugers tend, either consciously or unconsciously, to create a class consciousness among collectors. You are either a "real Luger collector" (sometimes called "advanced") or else you are just some guy that has some junk mixed parts (or reblued) shooter Lugers. I don't care for that attitude in gun collecting and I don't care for that same attitude in other areas of life. That's just my personal prejudice.

02-17-2002, 11:19 AM	#3
Bill Utterback Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Work and Valuation Kyrie has done a fine job of explaining the "classic" definitions of "collector" and "shooter" Lugers. Let me also say that I have numerous times seen him help out other collectors, including novice collectors, on the LugerForum and elsewhere over the years. I very much appreciate the information and photos he has shared with me. Definitions are only valid for those who accept them. When a majority of a given group choose not to accept a given definition, the definition is not valid for that group. Kyrie wrote "A mismatched Luger, or a Luger that has been refinished, has no collector value. It doesnâ??t matter how mismatched it may be, or how many times it has been refinished." On 12/18/01 he wrote "Actually itâ??s taking a $300 shooter and making it look like a $1200 collector grade gun." On 1/23/02 he wrote "Refinished, value about $250 - $300. "Refinished, value about $250 - $400. Reading this kind of thing, a novice collector could assume than an expert has stated that reblued "shooters" are worth only $250 and mismatched (by only one part) "shooters" are worth only $300." In a friendly and intellectual way, I take issue with these definitions and values. Certainly they are valid for Kyrie as an individual. Probably they are valid for that group of collectors who collect only all original, all matching, 98 percent or better Lugers. But I seriously question the fact that they are valid for the group composed of people who have purchased Lugers in the last 30 years. I suspect they are not valid for the majority of LugerForum members. Some will doubtless be saddened to hear that their otherwise pristine Lugers which have mismatched magazines are only worth $300. Thor would be saddened to learn that his refinished works of art are worth only $250. The lucky one who has a 1918 Spandau Luger with a mismatched firing pin would probably be upset to learn that it is worth only $300. Take heart, fellow Lugerites! The true value of a Luger is what you can sell it for. Also, if you have a Luger you would not take $700 for, the value of that Luger to you is in excess of $700. You have just as much right to decide on your own valuation system as does Kyrie or anyone else. As far as true value goes, I hereby promise to buy all the complete, functional, original finish Lugers I am offered for $300 each. I hereby promise to buy all the complete, functional, refinished Lugers I am offered for $250 each. My major problem with the "classic" definitions is that those who collect only "perfect" Lugers tend, either consciously or unconsciously, to create a class consciousness among collectors. You are either a "real Luger collector" (sometimes called "advanced") or else you are just some guy that has some junk mixed parts (or reblued) shooter Lugers. I don't care for that attitude in gun collecting and I don't care for that same attitude in other areas of life. That's just my personal prejudice.