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John D. · 12-31-2001, 11:29 AM

Hi MikeP..!!

I'm not sure where anyone questioned the intergrity of either the buyer or seller - but it sounds like the individual who wants to purchase it certainly would know what to look for..!

That being the case - I can offer a small bit of information about one variation where it is possible that such a Luger might well exist. After the surrender of the Kreighoff factory and before Russian occupation - several Lugers, in fact, left that factory assembled from G.I.s as well as a small team of guarded German factory workers. There are three variotions to these Lugers (termed "Post War")..

- G.I. assembled from the substiantial parts bins at the factory - where there were a "hodgepodge" of frames (some I would think were not serialized in the production line yet) spares and parts from HK, Mauser, Simson, DWM, etc..

- Factory guarded employees who producted a limited number of Krieghoffs that were internally marked (see expernally marked in the next variation below). I believe the highest recorded internally numbered Krieg is about 200 - but it is reference in Gibson's book somewhere.

- Factory production Kriegs for PX sales - which are externally stamped and serialized.

It may be that the Luger in question is of the first variation - a G.I. assembled Luger. For that, I really don't think that whoever put it together would really care whether the frame was serialized or not - as it may have been their own trophy and may have pulled the frame out of a number of spares available. Further, many firearms still exist without serial numbers in today's collecting/shooting community (Yea, I'm serious - for example, anyone own an early variation of a Mossberg 142-A - a HIGHLY popular .22 rifle? If so - please post the serial number of that gun - as they are listed as "NSN"...). So, chances are this *isn't* a "FORGERY" - as why would anyone go to the trouble to not only erase the serial number - but ALL the stamps/proofs on a Luger? Just doesn't make sense, IMNSHO.

However - it may be an interesting piece - and we would all be interested to know if there are any markings on the inside parts (proofs, five pointed stars, CIRCLE A, internally numbered) - or small proofs, for example - firing pin, barrel, etc.). Any of those markings would help identify it's variation and possibly, its origin.

I don't know what happened at other Luger production facilities at the end of the war (maybe someone will join in with that info.), but from a Krieghoff standpoint, a Luger such as you describe certainly is possible.

HTH!!!

12-31-2001, 11:29 AM	#8
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Another Viewpoint... Hi MikeP..!! I'm not sure where anyone questioned the intergrity of either the buyer or seller - but it sounds like the individual who wants to purchase it certainly would know what to look for..! That being the case - I can offer a small bit of information about one variation where it is possible that such a Luger might well exist. After the surrender of the Kreighoff factory and before Russian occupation - several Lugers, in fact, left that factory assembled from G.I.s as well as a small team of guarded German factory workers. There are three variotions to these Lugers (termed "Post War").. - G.I. assembled from the substiantial parts bins at the factory - where there were a "hodgepodge" of frames (some I would think were not serialized in the production line yet) spares and parts from HK, Mauser, Simson, DWM, etc.. - Factory guarded employees who producted a limited number of Krieghoffs that were internally marked (see expernally marked in the next variation below). I believe the highest recorded internally numbered Krieg is about 200 - but it is reference in Gibson's book somewhere. - Factory production Kriegs for PX sales - which are externally stamped and serialized. It may be that the Luger in question is of the first variation - a G.I. assembled Luger. For that, I really don't think that whoever put it together would really care whether the frame was serialized or not - as it may have been their own trophy and may have pulled the frame out of a number of spares available. Further, many firearms still exist without serial numbers in today's collecting/shooting community (Yea, I'm serious - for example, anyone own an early variation of a Mossberg 142-A - a HIGHLY popular .22 rifle? If so - please post the serial number of that gun - as they are listed as "NSN"...). So, chances are this isn't a "FORGERY" - as why would anyone go to the trouble to not only erase the serial number - but ALL the stamps/proofs on a Luger? Just doesn't make sense, IMNSHO. However - it may be an interesting piece - and we would all be interested to know if there are any markings on the inside parts (proofs, five pointed stars, CIRCLE A, internally numbered) - or small proofs, for example - firing pin, barrel, etc.). Any of those markings would help identify it's variation and possibly, its origin. I don't know what happened at other Luger production facilities at the end of the war (maybe someone will join in with that info.), but from a Krieghoff standpoint, a Luger such as you describe certainly is possible. HTH!!!