LugerForum Discussion Forums - View Single Post - P.J. -- A few questions regarding MG

alanint · 10-23-2008, 09:21 AM

A few answers;

Any MG not purchased legally but registered during the 1968 amnesty are called just that: Amnesty guns. These were registered wiyhout paying the original registry tax, although all subsequent transfers require the tax. These guns are all fully transferrable, which means a qualified individual can own them after paying the $200 transfer tax. This is not as simple as it looks, as a law enforcement signature is required, which in most localities, is almost impossible to obtain. Most people circumvent this requirement by forming a corporation or living trust, which is a legal entity the guns may be transferred to, with no law enforcement signature required, (as long as your state allows MG ownership).

Guns that did not pay the transfer tax and were imported, manufactured or sold among class 3 dealers prior to May 19, 1986 are considered "Pre May Dealer Samples" and can only be owned by individuals holding a class 3 license. A dealer dropping his license may keep this inventory although I do not believe they may be transferred to their heirs.

"Post May' dealer samples are all guns imported, manufactured and registered after May 19, 1986. These can only be transferred from one class 2 or 3 dealer to another and only with a law enforcement or goverment letter requesting trial or demonstration of said weapon. If a class 2 or 3 drops their license, these must be transferred out of inventory to another dealer.

As far as what constitutes a machinegun. This is very complicated as ATF has convoluted the laws to fit different firearms. Some examples;
FN FAL- Upper receiver
M16- Lower receiver
MP5- If original, the receiver, if converted, the sear
Steyer AUG- The trigger pack
Browning 1919A4- The sideplate

Drilling a hole in the side of an M16 or AK where the sear goes-an illegal MG, whether there is a sear present or not.

ANY MG parts installed in an AR15 is an illegal MG, yet Colt continues to ship semi auto ARs with full auto bolt carriers in them.

Thousands of AKs, HK91s and 93s were shipped with full auto bolt carriers, but in these model guns-not a problem.

ATF once even tried to declare shoelaces anywhere near an M1 Garand an MG, once it was demonstrated you can make one go full auto by using one.

Sears command $14-15 thousand for MP5s only. The only other common registered sear on the market are for the FN CAL and they go for more like $4-$5,000.
The market value of a registered sear is based on the market value of a full auto version of the gun it is meant for, minus the value of a semi auto host weapon.
The registered sear, a 5 cent piece of metal, in most cases, is the "legal machinegun" as far as ATF is concerned.
An example;
Full auto registered "MP5" $18,000 +/-
Semi auto HK94 $4,000 +/-
Value of sear $14,000 +/-

I hope this has brought some light into a very complicated subject.

10-23-2008, 09:21 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	A few answers; Any MG not purchased legally but registered during the 1968 amnesty are called just that: Amnesty guns. These were registered wiyhout paying the original registry tax, although all subsequent transfers require the tax. These guns are all fully transferrable, which means a qualified individual can own them after paying the $200 transfer tax. This is not as simple as it looks, as a law enforcement signature is required, which in most localities, is almost impossible to obtain. Most people circumvent this requirement by forming a corporation or living trust, which is a legal entity the guns may be transferred to, with no law enforcement signature required, (as long as your state allows MG ownership). Guns that did not pay the transfer tax and were imported, manufactured or sold among class 3 dealers prior to May 19, 1986 are considered "Pre May Dealer Samples" and can only be owned by individuals holding a class 3 license. A dealer dropping his license may keep this inventory although I do not believe they may be transferred to their heirs. "Post May' dealer samples are all guns imported, manufactured and registered after May 19, 1986. These can only be transferred from one class 2 or 3 dealer to another and only with a law enforcement or goverment letter requesting trial or demonstration of said weapon. If a class 2 or 3 drops their license, these must be transferred out of inventory to another dealer. As far as what constitutes a machinegun. This is very complicated as ATF has convoluted the laws to fit different firearms. Some examples; FN FAL- Upper receiver M16- Lower receiver MP5- If original, the receiver, if converted, the sear Steyer AUG- The trigger pack Browning 1919A4- The sideplate Drilling a hole in the side of an M16 or AK where the sear goes-an illegal MG, whether there is a sear present or not. ANY MG parts installed in an AR15 is an illegal MG, yet Colt continues to ship semi auto ARs with full auto bolt carriers in them. Thousands of AKs, HK91s and 93s were shipped with full auto bolt carriers, but in these model guns-not a problem. ATF once even tried to declare shoelaces anywhere near an M1 Garand an MG, once it was demonstrated you can make one go full auto by using one. Sears command $14-15 thousand for MP5s only. The only other common registered sear on the market are for the FN CAL and they go for more like $4-$5,000. The market value of a registered sear is based on the market value of a full auto version of the gun it is meant for, minus the value of a semi auto host weapon. The registered sear, a 5 cent piece of metal, in most cases, is the "legal machinegun" as far as ATF is concerned. An example; Full auto registered "MP5" $18,000 +/- Semi auto HK94 $4,000 +/- Value of sear $14,000 +/- I hope this has brought some light into a very complicated subject.