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tenbears · 11-30-2007, 09:18 PM

Thanks for the replies inclosed are some remarks about this Banner from the other forum. I took this pistol apart and everything matches. I dont think this pistol was ever taken apart.

They are rather scarce, with less than 10,000 made and according to Breathed, many seem to have ended up in the Mid-East. This was obviously a US import as evidenced by the VL&D stamp and is in the correct range. The ones I have seen in similar condition have been well over $2K, so if no pitting, etc., I'd go for it.

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Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that this Banner is worth more than 2k.

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Dow.
Vince is correct about the scarcity of these mauser banners. Furthermore the import mark is interesting as this was toward the end of the VLD imports. I used to record serial no of
VLD marked C96s (mainly early ones) and VLD imports had become scarce by 90-100k..
John

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John,

That is a very good point, I too was suprised at the VLD marking, what is the latest # you have recorded?
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Vince,
It has been a number of years since I added to that list, and could not find it today. I do have some of the early VLD serials at hand and they become prominent in the early large ring series. My earliest VLD C96 is sn12370 with five others recorded in the 12k serial range. This appearance of VLD in the 12-15k range correlates with the first recorded USA import total of 21 in 1898, when these large rings were made. (In 1897 there were no C96 imported into USA). In contrast, 959 C96 were sold to England in 1898, a Boer War gun. These import figures are from System Mauser, Page 266.
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John:
Your comment concerning recording of VLD serial #s interest me. I have a VLD flatside in the 27,2xx range. Just how common are VLD flatsides per your records ?

My observations over the last year with online auctions seem to indicate that the majority of VLD are in or after the Late Large Ring Transitional group with serial #s in the 30,000 to 35,000 range.
Would appreciate hearing about your observations.
You are correct that the VLD marked C96 are particularly common in the 20 and 30k serial range. Again, the import records reflect this increase of C96 imported into USA. For example, imports (year) were 722(1901), 440(1902) 300 (1903) which covers production into the 30k serial range. Then imports decreased to 100(1904) and 168(1905). These records in System Mauser end at year 1905.

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The number under the rear site is found in most of the banners and is also found in other prewar C96, either as a random finding or in special groups such as the 1914 marked C96.It has been speculated that the number designates a special contract series. This was a popular topic in Auto Mag years ago but I cannot recollect a definite conclusion on its significance.

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I appreciate all the info on this Banner. I'm pretty up to snuff on Red Nines. I did a little comparison with a Red Nine and the Banner. And noticed the width of the slide slot on the grip for the stock iron attachment is .155 on the Banner. And .162 on the Red Nine. I measured this when I discovered that the Red Nine stock does not fit on the Banner. Inclosed are barrel proofs on the Banner which I'm not familiar with. And grip slot comparision with Red Nine on the right, Banner on the left.

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I guess the slot width is supposed to be 4m/m, but those guns were not made by CNC, so showing a little variation.

Not sure it's my illusion or not, various C96 width/length are integers when measured in metric system.

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11-30-2007, 09:18 PM	#1
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	Thanks for the replies inclosed are some remarks about this Banner from the other forum. I took this pistol apart and everything matches. I dont think this pistol was ever taken apart. They are rather scarce, with less than 10,000 made and according to Breathed, many seem to have ended up in the Mid-East. This was obviously a US import as evidenced by the VL&D stamp and is in the correct range. The ones I have seen in similar condition have been well over $2K, so if no pitting, etc., I'd go for it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that this Banner is worth more than 2k. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dow. Vince is correct about the scarcity of these mauser banners. Furthermore the import mark is interesting as this was toward the end of the VLD imports. I used to record serial no of VLD marked C96s (mainly early ones) and VLD imports had become scarce by 90-100k.. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John, That is a very good point, I too was suprised at the VLD marking, what is the latest # you have recorded? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vince, It has been a number of years since I added to that list, and could not find it today. I do have some of the early VLD serials at hand and they become prominent in the early large ring series. My earliest VLD C96 is sn12370 with five others recorded in the 12k serial range. This appearance of VLD in the 12-15k range correlates with the first recorded USA import total of 21 in 1898, when these large rings were made. (In 1897 there were no C96 imported into USA). In contrast, 959 C96 were sold to England in 1898, a Boer War gun. These import figures are from System Mauser, Page 266. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John: Your comment concerning recording of VLD serial #s interest me. I have a VLD flatside in the 27,2xx range. Just how common are VLD flatsides per your records ? My observations over the last year with online auctions seem to indicate that the majority of VLD are in or after the Late Large Ring Transitional group with serial #s in the 30,000 to 35,000 range. Would appreciate hearing about your observations. You are correct that the VLD marked C96 are particularly common in the 20 and 30k serial range. Again, the import records reflect this increase of C96 imported into USA. For example, imports (year) were 722(1901), 440(1902) 300 (1903) which covers production into the 30k serial range. Then imports decreased to 100(1904) and 168(1905). These records in System Mauser end at year 1905. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The number under the rear site is found in most of the banners and is also found in other prewar C96, either as a random finding or in special groups such as the 1914 marked C96.It has been speculated that the number designates a special contract series. This was a popular topic in Auto Mag years ago but I cannot recollect a definite conclusion on its significance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I appreciate all the info on this Banner. I'm pretty up to snuff on Red Nines. I did a little comparison with a Red Nine and the Banner. And noticed the width of the slide slot on the grip for the stock iron attachment is .155 on the Banner. And .162 on the Red Nine. I measured this when I discovered that the Red Nine stock does not fit on the Banner. Inclosed are barrel proofs on the Banner which I'm not familiar with. And grip slot comparision with Red Nine on the right, Banner on the left. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess the slot width is supposed to be 4m/m, but those guns were not made by CNC, so showing a little variation. Not sure it's my illusion or not, various C96 width/length are integers when measured in metric system. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------