marianne ades

just to let you all know what happened with this so far,

i had contacted ralph shattuck about the one luger i had

gotten so far, and he refered me to a guy here in my

general area (san francisco). that guy just came up and

looked at the luger.


he said the blueing and straw were original, and so were all the parts of the gun. he also confirmed that there were indeed no proof marks, but also said that this was an original military 1914 artillery, and was not a fake or a re-worked commercial in any way.

he said that this sometimes did happen late in that war, and

pointed out the straw color etching on one side of the

reciever as being typical of the later versions where the

assembly was a bit rushed. the condition of the gun is as

i described earlier, so i do have a good piece in this.


unfortunetly, he did point out some things i had not

noticed or known on the other items. the original magazine serial number seemed to match (to me), but he pointed

out that there was a flat spot on the wood, and said that it had been shaved down and a new number matching the gun put

on.


he also pointed out that although there was a matching number on the hoster, there should not have been, as the hosters are not suppposed to have serial numbers on them.


with the stock, the original number had been removed and the same stamps used on the magazine were used on it- but whoever did this left the suffix letter alone, and

he pointed out that it should have matched the 'c' on the gun, but was an 'e' instead.


he also said that the cleaning tool was an earlier one, from before 1908, since it had a brass rivet holding the wood handle to the steel rod.


i guess that is about it for now- when i finally get the second luger, i'll have him take a look at that too-

i did get a chance to look at it yesterday (i was supposed to pick it up, but butterfields did not call in the registration, so i've got to wait 10 more days). it does have the basic proof marks on it, # 15 and # 17 from the proof page one here. it also has some initials scratched in the reciever 'mhm', and the caliber marking

looks like 8/88 (it probably says 8.82, but i did not have a glass with me)


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previous messages:


i just got two artillery lugers, which both seem

to be dwm original issues with matching serial

numbers/number styles and no proof marks, but i

would like to make sure of them. i was hoping

to find serial number info and identification

info here, but i don't seem to see what i was

looking for.


there seem to be plenty of info on proof marks

and logos, but no info on what the id is if there

are no proof marks or logos. there seems to be

nothing on serial numbers, which i had hoped

would date these better, and though the letter

suffixs are shown, there is no explanation of

what they mean.


so, here is the info i have; if you have any

questions, or can help with the id, please

email me (it's too hard to find responses

on bbs).


1. dwm marked, 1914? style, 1918 date. matching serial

numbers/number styles on all parts, including

grips, stock, and holster. no proof marks on

anything that i can see.


serial # 2172c, 9mm (i think, but there does not

seem to be any easy way to tell), 8 inch barrel,


clean walnut grips with sharp checkering.


brown leather holster (this seems to be somewhat damaged-

the holster flap strap was partially torn, and repaired

with what looks like kidskin, which is also starting to

tear.).


stock (walnut?) in good shape on side next to holster,

with some bruises on outer side.


stock leather is brown, with some damage- some leather

was carved out of the strap attached to the fore-end,

and there seems to be a missing strap on the fore-end

cap (it looks like there is supposed to be a strap

there, that the longer strap slides through, to prevent

the cap from falling off). there are two screws on the

end of that cap, which look like they've had their heads

snipped off.


the stock has some minor pitting on the yoke? (the metal

part on the stock that attaches to the gun).


the cleaning rod is there (with some rust), but not the

takedown tool.


gun has 95-97% blue, with wear at chamber, some

minor browning on barrel, and some wear at butt.

parts show 95% straw color with some light spotting.

fine bore. some of the leather-to-brass fittings have

what look likes the usual green goo from that

interaction.


2. dwm marked, 1914? style, 1918 date. matching serial

numbers/number styles on all parts, but no numbers on

magazine. no proof marks on anything that i can see.


serial # 5334k, 9mm (i think, but there does not

seem to be any easy way to tell), 8 inch barrel,


40-50% blue, some light spotting on fore and back straps.

replacement grips (i do not know if these are

contemporary or modern), fine bore.

have not picked this one up yet, so cannot give info

on straw, etc. no accesories.


also, had some questions-


how do i determine caliber?


where is the best place to buy modern replica

stocks, holsters, and cleaning rods?


are original takedown tools available?


i've seen a few snail drums and drum loaders for sale,

but the prices are high. does anyone make working

replicas (hopefully pre-ban)?


i've read that if i decide to shoot these (just to

test them), i should not use just any modern 9mm para

hardball, but one designed to produce a lower chamber

pressure. is this the case, and what should i look

for? (ditto for my broomhandle mauser red 9)


thanks,


m ades

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