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Need help...30 Luger Reload recipes

I want to reload for my 4" '20 commercial in 30 Luger...PLEASE EMAIL ANY SUGGESTIONS
garandman@woh.rr.com
I would appreciate any help or suggestions you may have with regards to recipes..
I have quite a bit of UNIQUE powder on hand so, if you have a suggestion that includes UNIQUE , that would be great . If not...I'm open to all suggestions ...right down to bullet selection.

Thanks Ken in Ohio.

Hi Ken in Ohio:

Unique should be a good powder for the 7.65. You might want to check some of the older threads for suggestions here.

Please post your results after you have developed some good loads, as several of us, including me, are currently developing 7.65
loads.

Here is a major hint that will get you started off right. OAL with round nose projectiles
should be 29.8mm or 1.174. Shorter rounds will jam if you are using an original magazine.

Sieger

Unique is the only powder I use in the 30 Luger. Lymans book is way low on gr of powder IMO to work most actions, especially if they dont have the original main spring in place and have a stiffer 9mm replacement spring like Wolff sells.

I use 5-5.2 grains of Unique. With the 100 GR Hornady XTP HP .312 bullet. It's made for 32-20. Start off at 4.5 GR and work up. The pressures are higher because of the tighter fit of the bullet. Guns cycled perfectly. Check for pressure signs as you do so. Slug your bore and get an accurate diameter. If it's .310 or above? You'er fine. If it's less. Use another bullet. I've used this load in a .309 bore, without any problem. I don't advise that anyone else does. It's your decision.And it will literally shred a soda can.
Ron
Always very accurate. Never had any problems.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ron Smith:
I use 5-5.2 grains of Unique. With the 100 GR Hornady XTP HP .312 bullet. It's made for 32-20. Start off at 4.5 GR and work up. The pressures are higher because of the tighter fit of the bullet. Guns cycled perfectly. Check for pressure signs as you do so. Slug your bore and get an accurate diameter. If it's .310 or above? You'er fine. If it's less. Use another bullet. I've used this load in a .309 bore, without any problem. I don't advise that anyone else does. It's your decision.
Ron
Always very accurate. Never had any problems.<hr /></blockquote>Ron:

As the grooves are oversized (.311 grooves vs. .308 projective), I have also been interested in using larger bullets (in lead anyway) in the 7.65.

In your Luger's chamber, is the case a tight fit with the .312s you are using? Should I have any concerns here?

Sieger

Can I use 90 Gr round nose lead?...I have those from my 32 mag I used to load...Anyone load these? and if so...what kind of charges?
Ken

Sieger, I've never had any kind of problem. I've had two 30 s and they worked fine in both. They also work well in my Sig 220. Remember.., I am just telling you what my favorite load is. You do as you wish. (Disclaimer)

Ken, The same load should work with "hard" cast bullets. I would'nt use them if they'er kind of soft. I check hardness by pressing the edge of my thumb nail on the base, and run it across hard. If it leaves a groove. They'er too soft. Again, I am not recommending that you use this information. I am merely telling you what I do.
( Cover my A--, boiler plate.)

Ron

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ridecontrol:
Can I use 90 Gr round nose lead?...I have those from my 32 mag I used to load...Anyone load these? and if so...what kind of charges?
Ken<hr /></blockquote>Ridecontrol:

Sounds like a perfect match to me. Your expander button is probably too small though (usually .307), and will cause lead shaving of the bullets.

You probably will need to buy (or use) an expander button for the .32 Automatic. This should size your cases from .310 to .311 or so, a perfect fit for your bullets.

After sizing a few cases, see if they will slip into the chamber easily, without binding. If so, it should be full speed ahead.

I'm trying the exact same experiment, later this month, with my 7.65 (a 70s Interarms Model).

Please keep us informed of your progress, and I'll do the same.

Sieger

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Ken, The same load should work with "hard" cast bullets. I would'nt use them if they'er kind of soft. <hr /></blockquote>Try the lead moly coated 80 grain .311s at Northwestreloading.com by Bear Creek.

The 9mm 125 grain TC .356 lead moly bullets are fantastic in my 9mm Parabellum. With the coating they mic out at .357, do not lead the barrel and group like you wouldn't believe at 25 yards.

For an alternative powder, you might also try some SR-4756.

Sieger

These loads were not tested for accuracy, only for velocity and gun functioning. Five shots of each load were fired. Velocities were taken 15 ft from the muzzle with a PAC chronograph. The 60 gr Gold Dot & 85 gr XTP were .312 bullets resized to .3095. The 85 gr Sierra & 93 gr Hornady bullets were .308. Resized cases miked .385 at the base; fired cases miked .388-.389 at the base.
WARNING: These loads appeared to be safe in my guns (they did not blow up!) However, you use them at your own risk.

BULLET-------POWDER---CHARGE---AVG MV--BBL LGTH

60 gr GD-----Unique-----6.5 gr------1613------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Unique-----7.0 gr------1726------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Unique-----7.0 gr------1848------4 3/4
60 gr GD-----Unique-----7.0 gr------1902------6
60 gr GD-----Blue Dot---9.0 gr------1538------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----HS-7-------8.5 gr------1535------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----HS-7-------9.0 gr------1667------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-Unique-----6.0 gr------1293------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-Unique-----6.5 gr------1442------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-HS-7-------7.5 gr------1286------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-Blue Dot---7.5 gr------1280------3 7/8
85 gr Sierra-Blue Dot---7.5 gr------1304------4 3/4
85 gr XTP----Blue Dot---7.5 gr------1268------3 7/8
85 gr XTP----HS-7-------7.5 gr------1304------3 7/8
85 gr XTP----HS-7-------7.5 gr------1330------4 3/4
85 gr XTP----HS-7-------7.5 gr------1542------6
93 gr Horn---Unique-----5.0 gr------1300------3 7/8
93 gr Horn---Unique-----5.0 gr------1343------4 3/4
93 gr Horn---Unique-----5.4 gr------1362------6
93 gr Horn---HS-7-------6.5 gr------1211------3 7/8
93 gr Horn---Blue Dot---7.5 gr------1292------6
93 gr Horn---SR 4756----5.6 gr------1343------6

These loads did not cycle the action:

60 gr GD-----Red Dot----5.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Green Dot--5.5 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----HP-38------5.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----W 231------5.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----4756-------6.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----HS-7-------8.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Unique-----6.0 gr----------------3 7/8
60 gr GD-----Unique-----6.5 gr----------------6
60 gr GD-----Blue Dot---9.0 gr----------------6
60 gr GD-----HS-7-------9.0 gr----------------6
85 gr Sierra-HS-7-------7.5 gr------1288------6
93 gr Horn---Unique-----5.0 gr------1322------6
93 gr Horn---HS-7-------7.0 gr------1211------6
93 gr Horn---HS-7-------7.5 gr------1396------6
93 gr Horn---4756-------5.5 gr------1245------6
93 gr Horn---HP-38------4.0 gr------1057------6
93 gr Horn---Red Dot----4.3 gr------1230------6
93 gr Horn---Green Dot--4.7 gr------1260------6
93 gr Horn---Blue Dot---7.0 gr------1218------6

Dear Ken: I just saw your question on reloading .30 Luger. Hornady makes two bullets for the .30 Luger. Hornady #1419 is a 93 grain FMJ and Hornady #1440 in a 93 grain Soft Point. Both work fine in my luger. I load 4 grains of Bullseye. If you can't find these Hornady bullets, try Old Western Scrounger.
Merganzer1 (Vic)

Bullseye and W231 are probably a bit too fast for max loads. The 7.65 mm likes its powder a tad slower then the 9 mm. Unique should do well.

The original nominal groove diameter of 0.311 was over sized. The problem with using bullets sized to groove diameter is that you may run out of clearance around the case neck. If the neck does not have room to expand prssures will rise...

This may or may not be a problem, but it's something to watch out for. There are a few rebarreled Lugers around sporting barrels made from US manufactured 30 caliber rifle barrels, in which case the groove diameter will be 0.308.

Quick and dirty test:

Take the pistol apart and hold the receiver/barrel assembly muzzle down. Drop a loaded cartridge in. It should fully chamber of its own weight. Turn it over and it should fall out of its own weight.

5.1-5.5 grs of Unique with the 93 gr Bullet. I usually fire the first lower load and use it if the action functions okay. If not, I will go to the upper load. The most accurate target I have is from a replacement barrel that was probably .308" diameter and as you can see the load worked fine and was more accurate than I can shoot. I will never be able to duplicate that day or the shooting, it really is beyond my capability.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/BStanTarget.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/BStanTarget.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Interesting thread!

As it turns out I have been using my CED Millenium chronograph in working up some loads so you might find this data of interest. I shoot 15 to 30 rounds when developing a load, more than most people do because I find 5 shots not enough to fully test my reloads. The data gathered is 10' from the muzzle shooting indoors using the infrared lights in 70 degree air temperature.

I used brand new Winchester brass with Winchester small pistol primers and Hornady .30 cal. Luger 93 grain .308 soft point RN bullets. The heads were seated to the crimping groove. I use a dillon 650 press and seat and crimp in two different stages.

Two guns were used to test my loads, a 1920's commercial with standard length barrel (gun was rebarrelled some time ago with a German barrel)and an Interarms "Mauser" 1970's vintage with a six inch barrel. I test for shot to shot consistancy since I believe this makes the load consistant for accuracy.

Here are the results:

Best load
4.5 grains of 231
30 rounds through the commercial gun with an average of 1,160fps and a standard deviation of 6, the extreme spread was 35!

20 rounds through the 6" barrel with an average of 1,214fps, a standard deviation of 11 and extreme spread of 41.

The commercial gun shot consistantly better than the Mauser 6" in terms of std and es.

Another good load was 4.7 grains of 231 with the commercial gun getting 1,189 fps a std of 6 and es of 37. A little faster than the 4.5 grains and equal in consistancy, 30 shots fired.

The 6" with 20 rounds yielded 1,254fps average, std of 11 and 46 es.

To make it more interesting I tested two commercial brands of ammo and here is what I got.

Fiocci Ammo
30 rounds fired in the commercial gun with 1,028fps average, a standard deviation of 26 and extreme spread of 123. My reloads are much better!

Lapua
29 shots fired in the commercial gun with 1,090fps average, a standard deviation of 13 and extreme spread of 52 much better than the Fiocci but still not as good as my reloads!

Hope you guys found this information useful.

Mark