Help in ammunition identification
 

My neighbor gave me this box of 9mm Luger ammunition and said it was his grandfatherâ??s. I know very little about German ammunition and thus I turn to the experts on this forum.

I was hoping that someone could help me identify when then this ammunition was manufactured. :confused:
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/round1.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/round2.jpg

I think its 1943, but would like someone to verify

Jim

Hi
yes it is 1943. Thats great that your neighbor gave it to you.

Russ

Jamese, Yes this is 1943 dnh (Rheinisch-Westfalische Sprengstoff AG Werk of Durlach) production steel bullet (armour piercing) ammo in the typical 16rd WW2 box. No only is sale of this ("cop killer") ammo illegal in most states, but the steel projectile will wear down you bore in nothing flat. TH

Don't shoot that ammo Jamese... It is already collectable and will be valuable in days to come...

Are those shell casings steel or just tarnished brass?

Dean,
St+ = (St)Steel & (+)Improved(lacquer coated).
Bob

Without digging out my regs I believe that ammo is illegal to own unless you have a C&R FFL since it is armor piercing.

That's interesting. I did not know that the Germans were making steel cased ammo at that time.

I presume this was done because of scarcity of brass during wartime.

When did steel cased small arms ammo get started and by whom? By this I mean "mass produced small arms ammunition" and not isolated early experiments or artillary shells.

Thin steel jackets do not necessarily mean armor piercing... I don't think those bullets are any more rugged than the standard brass/copper alloy used for bullets... The steel jackets were made exactly for the reasons noted... Brass was getting harder and harder to come by in 1943...

IMHO considering their age, you would really have to have caught the eye of law enforcers by doing shady things in order for them to make a big deal out of this ammo...

If there are regs to the contrary Herb, I would really like to know their source...

Question...in my limited logic...If you don't have to have a C&R license to own a C&R gun, why would you need one to own ancient ammunition?

I had some "steel" bulletted 9mm years ago, shot really nice in my artillery and punched clean holes in thick pieces of wood :D . This was before the "armor piercing" debate.

I believe that Herb is right, especially from the standpoint of C&R, it does state something about armor piercing, I think it is for collectable rounds and in many states not an issue, (within that state).

Ed

John,
Not only would you have to do something to catch their eye.....you would have to find a cop who knows that the stuff is possible illegal to start with.

I have no intent to fire it, and I do have a C & R
I guess I'll have to check Florida law.

I assumed that the casings were brass, however I checked with a magnet and found them to be steel, along with the bullets

Thanks for the great info, maybe we should post a section on ammunition on the board if there is enought interest?

there have been plenty of different rifle and handgun ammo made with mild steel jackets. As far as i know it does not constitute AP. AP is defined by the core material in the bullet if I am not mistaken. now if the core is made of tungsten or some other simliar hard metal, then the AP designation seems appropriate. Does this particular 9mm have a hardened steel core?