Ruining Lugers!
 

I'll tell you what is destroying old Imperial, transition, and commercial Lugers: RESTORATION!

I am so weary of going from auction to auction and seeing nothing but pistols that have been forever destroyed by 'restoration' executed by people who care nothing of history. Their only interest is making a buck from a gun. Any gun.

It is sickening!

I believe this is true in a lot of cases, but if the guns is in bad shape (and mismatched) I see nothing wrong with doing anything you want with the gun. If Thor does them, they sure are pretty!!
Lonnie

Wes,

Philosophically, I agree with your comments, but in some cases restoration can be a positive action.

Case in point: Last year I found a 1918 DWM at a local gun show which was mechanically flawless . . . . except that someone had SALT blued the entire Luger, including the strawed parts.

I bought it at a very good price and asked Ted Green (Thor) to restore it. He did so; and, because the underlying metal was unblemished, it now looks like a factory-fresh 1918 DWM.

Luke

[quote]it now looks like a factory-fresh 1918 DWM <hr></blockquote>

But, it is not a 'factory-fresh' 1918 DWM! And compared to an honest, original pistol, the historical value is nothing.

Luke, the ruination was done before you bought it, and the most a person can do at this point is make the best of a bad situation. The rebluing-destruction is the problem, though.

The sweat from fright and terror of the soldier clutching the pistol in the trench, while awaiting for the next mortar to end his life, or while confronting the enemy cresting the edge of his fox hole, errodes and changes the original blue on the grip strap. Water from rain and sleet. Abrasion from the mud and dirt. This is the value and history that is instilled into the weapon. Why buff it away?
An item does not have to be shiny to be of great value.

I have a brother-in-law who has shelac-ed more old Winchesters and Remingtons than is lawfully allowed. If it don't shine, it ain't worth a damn. I often wonder if my sister doesn't shine in the buff!

Wes, While I agree with your sentiments I am not a purist when it comes to collecting or preserving a historical piece. I found a 1908 1st issue Army at the Houston gun show several years back that was chromed. The pistol had not been buffed so I had the chrome electronically removed and restored the piece. At least it is somewhat back to square one. Part of the history is contained in the pistol itself, not the finish. Would I prefer it to be completely original? You bet. Do I like the pistol anyway? Sure. Sometimes you take what you find. Holsters are the same way. I repair several to more than several every week. It would be an ideal world if none of them had rotten stitching but that is not the case. Should I keep a holster that the top has fallen off and not fix it or stitch the top back on? Most people would opt for stitching the top back on. Not original but you have preserved history for a little while the best you could. Jerry Burney

Wes, I think I bought a Model 88 Winchester rifle from your brother-in-law at a gun show in Sacramento. Paid $300 for it and every square inch of it had been varnished, barrel, all of the interior parts everything but the bolt. Got some Sears paint and varnish stripper, finally got all of it off and did a hot linseed hand rub finish on the stock and now it looks like new, not a mark on it. Maybe there is something to that varnish trick??

Wes,
in principle, I also agree with you. We all should be careful about our decision to restore. But sometimes the rules should be bent. A couple of years ago I bought a 1917 navy for $1300. That was cheap even then. It was an ugly duckling but original. If I had passed on that gun I believe in my heart that that gun would have been parted out or abused into oblivion. It had no rust or pits. I turned it over to my professional restorer and he did a great job of making that luger into a beautiful swan. Your gotta remeber that bluing is a rust preventative and this gun would have eventually began to rust because there was very little bluing on it. And rust never stops. Yes,this gun has lost some history. But it is now a proud example of its prior state.
I also had a 1914 Erfurt artillery. It was a beautiful gun except that there was a light freckling rust all over the outside that removed all traces of bluing. In essence, it was in the white. But that would not have lasted long in the white state. Again, I feel that I saved this gun from eventual destruction.
But I also have a 1906, 1st issue, unaltered navy. Not good bluing. But to restore this gun WOULD destroy its history. I would not dream of redoing that Luger. So all I can do is keep a big gob of grease on it to prevent further deteriation from occuring.
Now, I have a professional restorer who does not use the hateful buffing wheel so popular with hackers and he does a beautiful rust bluing. People who I have shown the guns to can only say the the guns that I have restored are too perfect. But, funny as it may sound, I still agree with you in principle.
Big Norm

I think that very much more is made out of the "history" aspects of Lugers than is warrented. The fact is, what most of these guns have to say is lost to history. Without records of issuance or anecdote there is no way to know whether this Luger or that got this wear, that ding, the cracked and worn grip, those patches of pitting: in combat, with hard use by a target shooter, or by neglectful storage.

There are, patently, some eloquent Lugers. Any Luger with unit markings; any small contract guns sent to known places--Test Eagles, Vickers/Dutch, Crossed Rifle Russians, Persian Artilleries (you get the idea); Lugers with bring-back papers or veteran capture stories (first-person or otherwise); certainly deserve maintenance of their status quo as historical artifacts. This actually contravenes the principle of "buy the Luger, not the story" as the story is where the history actually lies, in relationship to the Luger. I suppose this also extends to "puzzle guns", Lugers with strange, questionable, or obscure markings.

Most of the Lugers out there are historical orphans. The 1917 Navy with file marks and cold blue spots with little original finish I buy from a gun show dealer; the 1900AE which has been worn out, shot out, buffed out and reblued twice which I buy from a regular dealer; the 1920 Commercial which I buy from a pawnshop; the Black Widow I buy from a friend--all are disconnected from their history as surely as pulling a wall plug.

For that matter, if the history concerns you, you should think twice about "restoring" that mismatched Luger. If it comes from a batch of Russian/East German reworks part of its history is definitely known, and it is a history which actually has some meaning to those of us who grew up in the postwar shadow of the Communist threat.

--Dwight

Wes, you and I don’t agree on a lot of things, but I think you are absolutely right on this point. There is no real substitute for a collectable military firearm that is still in basically the same condition from when it came out of a soldier’s hands. I came to this acumen conclusion just recently actually. Every day is a gift to learn something new. Anyway, several months ago, I bought a super cool 1944 byf coded K98 rifle with an authentic ZF-41 scope. Don’t ask me what I paid for it, LOL. I had it in my hands and was about to clean the bloody hell out of all of it (like I usually do) when I noticed that it really had the smell, patina and feel of a real WW2 rifle. I unscrewed the bolt, and the oil and grease on the matching firing pin glared of age and careful preservation. I cleaned and oiled the bore only. To this day I’m super glad I didn’t ruin its nice patina and old smell. It would have been a gigantic mistake.

Well, gentlemen, I have sobered up this morning and must now clean up all of the confetti and empty bottles.

If I go to see a football game, why should I complain of the rules because they are contrary to the rules of tennis? Whenever my wife and I watch our daughters perform in a figure skating competition, should the audience be shocked if I scream, yell, and carry on because the judges will not allow my daughters to rough-up the competition as in a hockey game?

All of my whining shall cease. Collecting is governed by the real world. I collect Lugers and I know the rules and how the game is played, so......let's play ball, hotdogs at the end of the first quarter and beer all around at half-time! But, I tell you gentlemen; what we need are cheerleaders!

Wes,
put me in coach, I'm, ready to play. I gotta impress those cheerleaders.
Big Norm

WHOA, what are you going to show them 'BIG' Norm??

Norm is going to show the cheerleaders the Borchardt.