Erma .22 conv. kit ?
 

I posted a question regarding value of the small kit RE: pg383 Lugers at Random . On the General Discussions forum. Need a value on one as new?

Thanks! Ron

Picked it up today. All matching, Ser# 5818 Toggle has 2 stacked crowns in an oval.Or side by side E's. Right side of link is stamped with Staghorn? over an O ? or an S ? (tiny, and don't have my loop). 7 1/4" Barrel marked, 5.39mm and 5,4mm also Crown over B ? or R? and Crown over U. Mag aluminum base Ser# 5818. In beautiful wooden case. Is this an Erma?

Ron http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/100_0083.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/100_0082.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/100_0078.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/100_0089.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/100_0085.jpg

A very nice looking kit and I eny you your ownership of it.

I wish I could find one.

Hi Ron,

Crown/R and Crown/U can be 1950-1975 DDR (East German) repair and check marks.

This probably makes this a DDR rework of a pre-war Erma-set. John Walter mentions them in his 'Luger Story' and he states they are very rare.

The Staghorn may indicate a postwar West-German proof. There may be some date letters near the proof, but it's difficult to see on the image.

Thank you both for the information. Appreciated greatly! I have added photos of the Crown proofs and the very tiny Antler(s)? proof.I don't see a date. Very crude and does not appear to be the standard Ulm proof. The crown over the B is larger with three points. A different style than the crown u which is rounded, and faceted.
G. I doubt that I would be lucky enough to have found an E. German re-work. However, I would be extatic if it were so.
Ron

Ron,

The presence of a crown/R (instead of B) and a crown/U push it nicely towards Eastern-Germany.

Presence of a 3-digit proof date (month-year, like 150 for january 1950) would be nice.

G, I cannot tell if it's a B or an R. as only the front edge of the letter is there. The top loop is nearly complete. The bottom is a slightly curved leg. The crown is complete. The crown proofs are followed by 5,4mm .These are stamped on the left flat of the chamber block. The bottom of the block is stamped (more heavily) 5,39 mm. Why would it have two different calibration stamps? The Crown B or R and the 5,4mm on either side of the crown U, are struck much more lightly. And in a different style.
Ron

Thanks for the great photos Ron.

and I am Just curious... does anyone have or know of blueprints for the .22 caliber conversion unit?

John,

There is a patent-drawing of the Erma-design in John Walters 1977 'Luger'. No blueprints, however.

Ron, The EE in circle on the rear link, does indicate Erma - Erfurt production. TH

Tom and everybody else, Thanks for the help and the info. Just discovered it's most probably a police proofed pre-war circa 1920-1933. The strange looking stamp is actually a weird police proof used on aluminum bottomed police mags. As per Costanzo's pg 79 #22. It's an incomplete stamping, showing just the bottom 2/3s or so. Matches perfectly to one shown on Still's Luger forum. See 1933-1945 Holsters and Magazines forum.

Thanks! Ron

Hi, for completeness sake here is the answer I gave on Still's forum:

Ron,

Excellent find! This will get us a few steps further.

As stated before, the crown/U/B combination was in use before 1939.
The crown/U/R, together with Eastern-German stylized eagle from 1945 - early 50's.

So that were basically the two choices we had.
Since the eagle is now identified as a pre-WW2 Police acceptance stamp, the stamped parts of this set can easily be dated to the 1936-1939 German Police.

Early pre-war sets came in a slightly larger box, complete with cleaning tool. This box set without cleaning tool was available from 1936 onwards, so that provides us with the post-1936 time frame. The Crown/U/B marks were used until 1939, so that's the next limit.

Postwar Erma-sets have different boxing and different stamps, so this isn't a postwar commercial set. What I'm not sure about is the quality of the box and especially it's hinge. I've seen examples of boxes with a 12-screw layout, rather than the shown 8 screws. Perhaps the hinge was replaced one time or another. The size and layout of the box is correct.

G. Thanks again! The photo of the kit, pg 383 Lugers at Random, military issue, has 8 screws.
Ron

Thanks Gerben, I have that book, but my memory didn't function so I could remember seeing that patent drawing there.

IF anyone does have blueprints for the .22 caliber conversion unit, please let me know.