Bulgarian Commercial
 

Has anyone ever heard of a Bulgarian commerical Luger. A 5 digit serial number, numbered in the commercial style, No markings over the reciever or on the toggles, no proof marks??

Herb,
What makes it a Bulgarian if there are no markings? What type Luger is it, and what is the serial number?
There are a number of fake 1900 Bulgarians out there, but they are well marked (almost).

I'm with Johnny. What makes it a Bulgarian? Does it have a grip safety? Does it have a stock lug? If it is a 5-digit serial number is it in the 20000 range? Is it an old or new model? Are the safety lever markings Cyrillic?

The extractor has the cryllic markings, there is no lanyard loop or well, no stock lug and the lower rear of the frame is drilled for the lanyard loop but it is not there. Serial number is 50202 and 02 is on the rear toggle, safety bar, bottom of take down lever, top of safety lever, safety sear and on several internal parts. Full #'s on frame front and under barrel. The cryllic markings under the safety lever have been milled off.

Herb, I have seen one of these which has been "sanitized" of its upper markings--is this the case with the one you refer to? Kenyon's example of the 1908 Bulgarian shows the serial numbering in the commercial style which you describe, but your reported serial number is way out of his reported range.

--Dwight

Dwight, it appears to have been arsnel refinished, the blueing is 99+% and it appears to be new. The inside is perfect, not a mark. No indication of any kind of proof anywhere, Nothing over the chamber or on the toggles. The grips are repro and new. It came with a grey parkerized mag with an unnumbered base, also new.

It would appear that the gun in question started out life as a 1908 Bulgarian, but as Dwight observed, the serial number is way out of line. The max serial number would be 5000 for the first contract and 5000C for the second. It is either an unknown variation or a nicely reworked/renumbered 1908 Bulgarian military. I would bet on the latter.

Ron, I have a feeling that you are probably right. I have heard that the Russians did some of that at the end of the war for commericial sales but haven't been able to find any definitive info on them. Care to hazard a guess as to it's value?

I probably should observe your tagline "It is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt", but I don't have that much sense. [img]biggrin.gif[/img] Perhaps $600 would seem like a good starting guess for a nice reworked shooter, and go up or down from there depending on how badly you want it.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> I was exchanging email with Dwight today about commercial serial nembers and he suggested that I post some pictures of the Bulgarian commercial Luger. Well, here they are for you comments.
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bulg_1.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bulg_2.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bulg_3.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bulg_4.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bulg_5.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bulg_6.jpg

Three more photos--
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bulg_7.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bulg_8.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bulg_9.jpg

Herb,

Thanks for posting the photos, the gun is very interesting.

There was an informative Bulgarian Luger thread on another Forum, you can find it if you follow this link.

Your example is heavily buffed, and I feel it safe to say that such buffing would have removed any numbers which might be present anywhere on the exposed blued surface of the gun. The numbers which are present are unexpectedly sharp. The number on the takedown lever is in a different typeface, and looks partially buffed away.

I would hazard a guess that this Luger's serial# originally ended in 02, and that the buffing process necessitated the creation of a completely new serial number, picked essentially at random. It would be interestng to see the number stamping on the trigger and the internal parts.

--Dwight

Herb and All, I had one that would be an exact duplicate of the one shown in the photos, except for the numbers. I bought it as a shooter and is now reworked into my "Baby". The lack of markings across the top, heavy buffing, lack of stock lug and lanyard loop, safety lever recess, etc.

My original thought was it was a refinished Bulgarian that had been "over finished"!!

If you look closely at the back of the frame, you can see where the holes for the lanyard loop have been filled... Regardless of it's origin, the extreme buffing on this one clearly make this just a shooter...

I stand corrected on this by Ron Rood... thanks Ron! ... I can still see a ghost of a circle on the rear frame shot where a lanyard loop might be attached, but that is probably just the photograph, but the absence of the lanyard recess bears out your thesis that this IS an original Bulgarian commercial... <img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" /> fortunately, the second half of my statement is accurate... otherwise I would have to record making a mistake today in my archive :D <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> :confused: