Phosphate Finish??
 

While visiting another forum I saw a picture that was posted by a P38 owner of a pistol that was half blued half phosphate finished, which I gather was not all that uncommon for a P38. I have a Mauser 1939/42 ser# 3786v that, to me, appeares to look the same. I wouldn't know what a phosphate finish looked like having never seen one. It, the finish, certainly does not look like blueing though. Does anyone know if this phosphate finish was ever tried on a Luger? I hope the picture shows it clearly
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/phosphate.jpg

Herb; that looks like patina to me. It does look neat.
Lonnie

Hi Herb! 1939 Mauser P.08 were very common with that tu-tone finish, but it was a poor blue (turned plum) receiver that creates the effect! I can't remember seeing one (39 date) that was any different?? But, I haven't paid that much attention to that variation over the years... till...later....GT

Phosphate finishes are varying shades of gray to nearly black, and tend to become gray-green with age. If you've ever seen a WWII 1911A1 or M1 Carbine, those are phosphate finishes, also known by the trade name of 'Parkerize'. The picture you posted does not appear to be a phosphate finish on the upper receiver, although it does somewhat resemble a phosphated finish that is completely worn away. It actually looks more like a part that was left 'in the white' that has picked up a brown patina over the years. It's of course possible that the upper was phosphated, perhaps as an experiment on more 'military' finishes for the Luger. I know I have read here of phosphated Lugers, but they were all completely done.
If I had waited and read G.T.'s post, I would have shut up, as I think he has it nailed.

Bob Adams has a 1943 Mauser-Portuguese luger for sale. Their M43's had a parkerized finish...

Here is a link to the gun he has for sale :

http://www.adamsguns.com/925.jpg

I had a chance to see this gun at the recent Las vegas gun show...nice gun...but one needs to get used to the parkerized finish...

I wonder this this finish proved to be more or less durable that the salt blue finish from Mauser...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Hi Pete,

Just curious, but I hope you made a typo. It's most probably a byf 42, made in 1942.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Pete, I think the answer to this question about durability is answered by the fact that the U.S. government arsenals stopped bluing and started "parkerizing" military firearms a LOOOONNGG time ago..

Thanks for your input. So phosphate finish =Parkerizing, I am very familiar with that finish and this doesn't look like it, too light. If this is a poorly done original blueing job how would one rate the amount of blueing remaining? Does complete poorly done blue count toward the total or would it be subtracted?

Frank,
You and Pete are both right. The Luger that Bob Adams has for sale is one of the lot of 1942 byf 42 Lugers that was sold under contract to Portugal in 1943. The Portuguese model designation is Mo.943 and the Lugers were given the phosphate finish by Portugal.

Hi Herb! I think you can rate it same as blue, faded plum is like faded blue, it may be all there, but if it's not rich and deep...it shows some use, or at the least exposure... I have seen some plum recievers that were bright plum, or red... on nice 98 to 99% guns, and they were stunning! unfortunatly, the ones I have are similar to the picture/link you posted.. this would most likely be whats for sale now, as the pretty ones are mostly tucked away! till....later....GT

Like GT said, a bluing error. Receivers and extractors, ejectors are hard parts that will show this reddish plum color occasionally. This Luger shown is pretty red everywhere. Looks like yours has some parts blued correctly and some not. The Luger shown below is a 1938. I think they are pretty cool myself.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/PlumLuger.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/PlumLuger.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

This Luger has a strange finish all over. The bore is nearly perfect, there is little holster wear on the barrel, side plate and frame rails, the reciever is that poorly blued color, even all over. The grip straps appear to have the bluing mostly worn off but looking closely it appears to be really thin as does the trigger guard but the grips are strong with the checkering still very good indicating little use. Perhaps it was put together during an air raid on Oberndorf and the bluers were not allowed to go to the air raid shelter until they finished what they were doing??? I don't think it has been messed with as all the numbers match except the rear toggle axle which has no number on it, apprently being replaced at some point.

Hi Guys,
Here I am back again sticking my neck out.
Could this Odd Browinish Blueing be caused by wiping over with some of the present day Instant blues that Contain Phosphoric Acid.
I have tried using various ones of these modern Instant Blues and they all have thew same charactistic of turning to a brownish looking antique appearing finish if over applied or left too long without neutralizing the chemicals.
Just a guess at a posibility.
ViggoG

A Portuguese rebuild Mauser with the plum coloring.

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/portuguese_rebuild_mauser_41_byf_plum_top.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/portuguese_rebuild_mauser_41_byf_plum_top.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

IMHO the color could be from the bluing solution being the wrong temperature or the salts being almost depleted in the solution, or a combination of both. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

Herb,
I've got a very pretty "plum' colored 1939 Code 42 too and it's a verified vet bring back that hasn't been fooled with. I wrote to John Martz about it a few years ago and he opined that it was due to the heat treating and bluing process likely being rushed to meet production demands. You seem to see it more with P-38's and certainly 1939 P-08's seem to exhibit it more than most other years. My 2 cents worth.
Lyn