Help ID a 7.65 mm
 

New member here, trying to learn more about one of my lugers, a numbers matching, 7.65 mm with number stamped wood base on magazine.

Thanks,

Dan

More views - your pictures are excellent - of the top and rear would tell us more. As it is I can't see if it ever had a stock lug or a date.

From what I can see it appears to have been a military issue Imperial German Army Luger that was reworked - new barrel in 7.65x21mm - after WW1 for commercial sale. The date may have been scrubbed as many were and then submitted for proof as required by civil law. The crown/N is a nitro proof when tested with smokeless powder.

Proofed at the civilian proof house in Suhl.


--Dwight

more photos
 

Thanks for your insight. Here are a couple more photos, one of the top of the rear. Almost looks like someone may have removed a stamping on the rear of the frame but I'm not certain.

To determine if a stock lug has been removed, the lower back of the grip needs to be seen. However, there is a clue that it may not have had a stock lug. Two things happened in 1913; the stock lug first appeared on late year production as standard and the military issued instructions that the hold open device would be included on all new production.

Lugers made for the military in 1909 through early 1913 did not have a hold open. Those made without the hold open could be returned to the Royal Erfurt Rifle Factory to be modified and that one has been. On the right side of the frame behind and above the trigger is a small crown/letter stamp showing that it was modified to have the hold open. If originally made without the hold open the odds are that it also did not have a stock lug.

Poor lighting, I know. But up close I can see no evidence of any removal marks for a stock lug.

So you believe this to have been made in or before 1913? I removed the grips and see a faded handwritten '6814' on one of them, clearly handwritten.

Wondering of Dwight Gruber might consider putting this one in his database. He shows the previous one, #6813, and then it jumps to 6821. I assume with all the potential modifications performed by many different gunsmiths, it is impossible to really date the original manufacture date or the remodel date.

Dan

Welcome to the forum. We publish a reference FAQ PDF. Just follow the FAQ link at the top of the page.

The grip doesn't appear to have had a stock lug so that would date the frame to somewhere between 1909 and 1913. If the receiver is original to the frame then that places it at 1910 ~ 1913 as the serial number wasn't stamped on the left side of the receiver until 1910.