Brazilian 7.65mm
 

What makes this a 'Brazilian'? Maybe a paper documentation? I may purchase it.

LINK:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3046388

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/g6252bra2.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/g6252bra1.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/g6252bra3.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/g6252bra4.jpg

Wes, the small proofmark on the left side of the receiver should be a "circle-B" or, a "B" within a circle. The serial number should be between 1 - 5000. Otherwise, the pistol is the same as the Portugese contract pistols of the model 1906. The proof on the side of the Portugese pistol will be a triangle within a circle and stamped in the same place as the proof on the Brazilian. Kenyon notes that the Brazilian contract pistols were used hard and most will reflect that use. The pistol you show seems to bear out that observation.

wes,

I suggest you have a look at page 108 of the Multi National Pistol. There is a crisp photo of a beautiful example.

I wonder if Simpson Ltd does not have a Brazilian 1906 these days (?).

Also a Portugese M2 would provide an exotic touch with a very impressive crest and mainly the same other features.
The same number was produced and they are usually in better shape.

Best regards,

Alain

ADDENDUM

The Brasilian and Portugese do have an extrator marked "carregada".

Rgds

Alain

Here's a pic of my M2 rig for refrence. The proof of the one on auction seemds to be much farther foward than the M2. What's the bore like or did you ask? The seller has been tring to sell that gun for at least 3-4+ months now. I think he might want too much?

http://www.cityscape.net/~dgeorge/m2.JPG

DWM was never one to throw anything usable away. The circle B proof also shows up on 1906 AE 7.65mm barrels around the 43,000 range and continues into the 49,000 range.

Doug, I too have an M2 rig that I purchased five or six years ago from a man who I believe bought it when they were brought into the country back in the 1960's. My pistol doesn't retain as much finish (90%) as yours but my holster is nicer and included the pin punch as well as the cleaning rod. I also have a second holster that I bought many years ago for a few dollars and while the general style is the same, it does have some differences from the other one. I'll try to take some pictures when I have the chance.

Doug,

Shame on you for posting a pic of such a nice rig on the same post as this doggy one. (That is very handsome pistol and accoutrements.) I am assuming that the 45% finish on the doggy pistol is on the inside surfaces, as I cannot ascertain that any of it is on the outside.

I too have been watching this pistol being offered for so long. Surely the owner is ready to take an offer in a couple of days. He really should offer the pistol without a reserve and the opening bid will tell us what he wants for it. This pistol looks honest to me but it is too bad that there are no original accoutrements to go with it.


Alain,

Your advice is well taken and has not fallen on deaf ears. I do not know that I am a proactive collector, but react to what is stumbled upon, but I do need an early commercial.

Gentlemen,

I need more opinions on this Brazilian.......

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Mv-003s.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Mv-004s.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Mv-005s.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Mv-006s.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Mv-008s.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Mvc-009s.jpg

And More:

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Mvc010s.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Vc-012s.jpg

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Mvc-013s.jpg

Wes, the gun appears to be original and honest. According to Kenyon, VERY few have survived in any kind of condition approaching "excellent" and most will be exactly as this one is... well used. The parts that are numbered and can be seen in the pics are matching. The serial number puts it toward the end of the contract run as 5,000 is the figure given. IMO, it would be worth having.

No educated opinion Wes, it is in pretty rough shape, and some would say, "Always pay for the best you can afford, because it will always go up in value".

BUT, I have always figured, if you can get it for a decent price and add it to your collection, then you have a represenitive for your collection, wall, safe, etc., and the guy waiting doesn't!

So, if you can get it cheap enough??? Brazilians are fairly rare? (Hey where the heck is Herb to look this stuff up, I'm tooo lazy.... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] )

So, if rare enough, does the price match what a nice specimen would bring of a less rare piece? I figure a low end collectable won't rise a lot, but I like to have that piece of history in my fat little grubby hands.

I have not encountered a very many Brazilian contract Lugers for sale and most that I have seen have been "rode hard and put up wet", sort of like the Dutch Lugers that were also subjected to tropical conditions. From the pictures it looks to me like an original piece that has not been fiddled with. There are a couple examples out there that are in fine original condition, but most are like the example you have shown. I bought one about four years ago that supposedly had just been cleared for import into the US. It is in pretty good condition, but it had been reblued (looks like salt blue)at some point in time, probably in Brazil, and then reasonably well cared for. Some "soft" edges but no pitting on external surfaces. I paid $900 for it, which probably was a bit high, if that is any help.

Not being a "collector" myself... I would think that this would be a great candidate for a total doll job restoration by master craftsman THOR... with the grips recut by master gripper HUGH...

Earlier this year, Ralph Shattuck's WOL had a nice 1906 Brazilian for sale for around $ 1600.00 (if memory serves...).

I saw it in person in AZ and it looked like a nice one at 95% or so, original finish.

I was side-tracked with my "Swiss" fever and just gave the Brazilian a quick once-over.

I sort of regret that. The piece is no longer on the list...

The Brazilian that is pictured appears to have suffered more from neglect than from usage. Approximately 35 years ago the Arkansas prison system sold quite a few obselete weapons. The most interesting of the lot were the Model 1892 Winchester saddle ring carbines. The carbines were carried every day for probably 50 or 60 years. The wooden forearms were worn down paper thin, and the buttstocks were their original size only at the buttplate and where they fitted the receiver tang. The receivers were so worn that the forge lines showed. With all this wear, there was not a spot of rust on them anywhere. They had been used, but apparently maintained religiously.

The reserve price (which has been disclosed to me) convinces me to pass on this pistol. I have never been accused of spending too little on nice specimens, and do not intend to be guilty of the inverse situation.

Here is the bid history so far:

Bidder Bid Quantity Comments Date/Time
hclark $800.00 1 -no comment- 11:32 AM PST Wednesday, Aug 7, 2002
hclark $700.00 1 -no comment- 11:31 AM PST Wednesday, Aug 7, 2002
hclark $450.00 1 -no comment- 10:50 PM PST Sunday, Aug 4, 2002
$450.00 Starting Price 8:51 AM PST Friday, Aug 2, 2002

Doubs, we know what the Brazilian Luger #4235 looked like as an honest item. If it ever shows up again as a 95% gun, then we will all know.....


John S., I believe that this IS a collector piece because it is honest and has not been boosted or 'restored'.


hhmmmm, I wonder who hclark is....

[img]mad.gif[/img] hclark--the sucker that found out the reserve is higher than $800 and quit bidding! Collectors Firearms is in Houston, about 60 miles from me. If it doesn't sell I may go in and look at it and dicker, although usually their guns are overpriced. By the way Wes, what is their reserve? <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Wes;

I think that I might know where a much nicer Brazilian is. I have no interest in it but have seen it. If you are interested, send me a private email.

Good Hunting

Garfield,

I am interested, but your profile does not allow private posts, and I do not have your email address.