1940 dwm
 

Please tell me what I've found. I recently purchased this package.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psv7y2imxu.jpg
The pistol has all matching numbers with (2) non matching mags. One mag is a typical WWII aluminum bottom mag and the other is a wooden bottom mag of earlier design with nickel plated body. There are no markings on the wood.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps4f87igmf.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psmjp1legd.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psiiph8exa.jpg
The holster is WWI, but has some issues. The lifting strap is missing, one of the belt loops appears to have been repaired with a rivet and the obvious addition to the flap.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps4xbqxaia.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psoxj0o2mw.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psuznvalft.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psnq5iq8bc.jpg
I know it has some value though. There is also a nice original belt included with manufacturer's marks and some cursive writing in German on the back side.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psg8fwo7yx.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps8kzhaqzr.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psp8kegdhs.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psdrtlicvq.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pskkmz9fsg.jpg
Sorry for lack of better pics of the gun, I'm working on that. This is the worse finish issue, otherwise the overall condition is about 90%.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psqmaderpk.jpg
This is the mark on the side of the bolt/toggle link.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psbb7m4hkf.jpg
And there is a tool.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pshlsf2cud.jpg

I apologize if this request seems disjointed, but there are a lot of things to consider. If there are any specific pics you would like, just let me know. TIA Ken

Ken,
I am not convinced that the numbers of this gun match. At least the toggle and the extractor have different numbers 40 and 04.
Sorry for the bad news,
Armin.

Ken,

while it appears to be nice package, there are a lot of issues. Appears to be a Mauser 1940 frame, but a DWM toggle assembly. Pre- 1934.

The eagle badge on the holster is not standard iss. also mixing WW1 and WWII

Can't quite make out the stamping on the tool, but looks like a small eagle 63. So WWII

Depending, it might be a good shooter.

FN

Ken

Nice rig, but I'm afraid Armin is right, . anyway would be interesting to see more close up pictures of the gun.

Regards

I can not disagree with anything stated so far. And judging by the lack of the "Mauser hump", I'd suspect some major component co-mingling. More close-ups of the frame numbers, etc, may help, but it seems that this one is a very nice looking shooter.
dju

If you'll look again, you'll see the number on the extractor is 40 not 04. I am going to strip the gun down this week and get some more detailed pics. Stand by......

Yes, you are right Ken. Magnifying the picture shows the extractor's number 40. But it is bottom up. Very very unusual !
Regards, Armin.

It looks like the breach block has a Navy marking? Bill

Ken, A few more photos would be helpful: the top of your rear toggle link appears to be marked (can't tell if it's an Erfurt C/letter or DDR C/n inspector's mark) but certainly not the orig Navy rear sight/link that would have matched the Navy marked breech block. Also a better close up of the unusual proof/acceptance marking on the right side of receiver. This may clarify when and where this hybred was put together. Thanks, Tom

The rear toggle link has an upside down "42", indicating an armorer's replacement?

Looks like it might a Luger put together by the Germans at a parts depot toward the end of the war. What is the serial number on the front of the frame?

Tom

Ken,
you have a nice collection of odds and ends!
Probably a good shooter, it all depends on how much you paid.

The marking on the right does look like a repair depot mark, a better close up would help.

Here's a few more pics. I meant to include them in the first posting.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pspbrgl0tt.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pst5oyi8hi.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psqqn01rl5.jpg

Will get some better pics this week, once I get it stripped down.

Any ideas on value of the belt? Anyone been able to decipher the writing. I know it's hard to see. I'm curious to know, based on what you see so far, what would be a ball park estimation of value on the whole package?

Value? What you paid for it would be a good start.

I believe the "42" on the rear toggle may be the Mauser code, and the rear toggle made by mauser as a replacement part, it is numbered "40" on the rear slant to match the frame.

Likely a Heerszugamt repaired P 08; too bad the holster has holes in it for the badge; I have no
idea of belt values.

By 1940, there were only three large factories making military Lugers: Mauser (Oberndorf), Krieghoff (Suhl) and the Swiss W+F (who were making their new pattern pistols).

DWM had closed the line in 1930, Erfurt at the end of WW-I in 1918 (it's tooling and gauges taken to Simson in 1925 and then Krieghoff).

After 1937, all the Mauser made receivers had the "Hump" on the receiver ears at the back.

This one is dated 1940, and has no "hump"... What is the possibility it's a Krieghoff receiver? Is that a real Waffenamt proof stamped on the right of the receiver (the eagle looks like it has an unusual number of horizontal lines)?

So, given the "42" marked Mauser rear toggle, the DWM serial numbered frame and forward toggle, this is a mix of parts from different factories.

in the first of your second set of pictures showing the front of the frame with serial number, it looks like the frame is a couple of millimeters proud of the front of the receiver. If this is the case, it could have an early long frame and a later receiver. I don't know if I'd trust it's safety or reliability if this is the case since it might fire, but could impact the cycle timing.

Marc

I had it pegged about the same as Marc. Early, long frame by DWM, 1940 Mauser receiver, DWM toggle train except for, apparently, a Mauser rear toggle link. It's a Heinz gun, made from 57 varieties!

I think the only implication for having the long, protruding frame is that it sticks out. It will probably fire safely unless there's something else amiss.

It would be great to do some swappin' with the right guy, with whom you might pool the parts and assemble two more coherent shooters--one with a long frame, one with a short...

But... it can't be a Mauser receiver. from 1940, they were milling the ears with the hump at the back...

What are the details of the geometry at the front of the frame relative to the position of the locking lever and the receiver lug?

If this ends setting the receiver too far back with reference to the place where the toggle contacts the receiver ears the timing of the action could be changed. it's subtle, but also critical to proper function.

The mark on the side is a poorly struck HzA Ingolstadt 20. This is a depot. Another luger just popped up on k98forum.com with the same mark. This is a known WW2 rework depot.

The only difference is in the amount of metal "ahead" of the take down lever; everything else is the same, well except the shape of the curve from the front to the trigger guard.

I have a similar gun put together from spare parts. HZa 20. Erfurt frame, 1940 byf. This Luger is pictured on page 261 of the book, The Mauser Parabellum.