.30 Luger Commercial
 

Belongs to a relative. DWM, .30 cal., 'Germany' on frame under SN, 7033k on barrel and frame, 33 on parts, original grips, traces of paint in GESICHERT, stock lug, period mag with wood bottom, nice bore, looks to be rust blue at about 50%-60%.
I haven't owned a Luger in years and have been out of the loop. What's a year on this and what do you think it's worth?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...psykvn8rnn.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...psjc8tle6c.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...psynbjnffm.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...psspkkcst1.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...pszk473rym.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...psgd0fbjif.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...pse4oovrba.jpg

1920's $800.

Thanks, George. I've never fired a .30 luger so I'm going to take it and the owner to the range one day and see how it does. The 9mm '1920' I once had was very accurate.

After more reading, looks like it is a 1923 or so 'alphabet commercial'. I failed to mention earlier that caliber is not marked anywhere on this pistol but it is .30 Luger. Also the barrel length is 98mm, and the 'chamber' ring has been ground clean.

Please elaborate on "chamber ring". Do you mean over the chamber where the date is usually found? Is it really ground clean or never stamped?
dju

I just sold one $1200. Much better condition than this, but still take two months to sell... if using that one as a reference, this one should be $400-$500 at most. Of course, market is non-linear, $1000 is a sensitive line for many buyers. Within $1000, it could go high...

If I remember correctly from years ago, the way to tell the date has been removed is if the ring is slightly thinner on top as viewed from the muzzle. That appears to be the case. I have read that some of these were ex-military issue with markings ground off, refinished and remarked for export. It also seems that some of these were newly-made pistols. It is a big gray area for me.

As to value, we're only looking for insurance value, so the $800 is good enough. I just took a look on GB and found the same model in nicer shape asking $1495, but I noticed the unmarked chamber top was not ground - the 'grain' of the original finishing was still evident. You can see it was altered on mine. I wonder if that affects value.

Saxman

Nice pictures and nice pistol.
Alphabet Commercial Lugers tend to be generally cheaper (but not always) and in much better condition than their military counterparts, no much sought after by collectors, can be an excellent choice as vintage shooters. Replace the mag before you shoot it. Get a "modern" MecGar mag, cheaper and surely safer for range shooting.

Best


Sergio

SM, As mentioned above, the Alphabet commericals started @ 2000 I block, so your's could be made in 1923 or 24. If all matching serials, I believe that it would sell in the $800 range (I'd purchase it for parts in the $500 range), but you may want to insure it for $1,000 replacement value. TH

Only Old Model Parabellums were made with cylindrical receiver tops. All Lugers manufactured after 1906 are slightly oblate, that is, the top of the receiver is slightly thinner as you describe. This is completely normal.

Receivers from which a date has been removed display different characteristics from this. It is not necessary to remove anywhere near this amount of metal in order to do so.

--Dwight

Yes, it affects the value, negatively.

I agree with Tom, if for insurance purposes, I would insure it for $1000, or perhaps a bit more. As time goes by, these old Lugers don't get any cheaper.

I'll get some good pics of that area, because everything else on the pistol indicates that it was made new as a commercial, not rebuilt to be. It would be good to know. BTW, the magazine turns out to be the original. I didn't know it had 'GERMANY' on the wood base until I saw the one on GB then got out the loupe to check.
As for magazines, I had several good new ones when I had the Luger I got from Tom, but sold them after I traded off the Luger for a Hi-Power.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...psyx4ivnrz.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...psahije46e.jpg

Let me know if you need more/different views - I have a few more shots.

DWM Alphabet commercial pistols were normally NOT stamped with a date above the chamber. Here's the same area on mine, from a block made just after yours... Same Profile...

I see no signs anything has been removed from your chamber.
It appears you have what you thought, a commercial pistol.

True, but according to what I found, some dated pistols were modified to remove the date in the process of manufacturing the export pistols. After seeing my own pictures it certainly looks like nothing was ever there. I guess I need new glasses or something - I never saw the 'GERMANY' stamp on the frame until I looked at the blow-up. Pictures like this on a large LCD monitor are great for old eyes - very revealing. I used the flash on purpose to cut through the finish and expose any irregularity. An LED flashlight does the same thing - very handy in the gun safe or at the gun show.

Good. That's settled.

It cleaned up very nicely today with Ballistol. I found some gunk in the recoil spring that I believe was the original grease. I'm sure the pistol had never been detail stripped and it still hasn't. :) Thanks to everyone's input and Dwight's stickies on the Alphabet Commercial, I was able to prepare a report on the pistol to keep with it.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...pstdzqcsub.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...psgmp7ytaj.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...pspaykmnom.jpg