Imperial, Weimar, and 3rd Reich Luger
 

Here is 1918 Luger, SN 4275h, I picked up recently that has evidence of service through all three periods of 20th century German military history.

This is what I have deduced:
This gun started life as 1918 WWI Imperial Luger.
After WWI it was accepted into Weimar military service in 1920 (not a police rework). It was reworked a second time by the Nazis for WWII military service sometime in the late 1930's.

I would say it has about 80% original blue left. Most of the wear is on the sideplate and grip straps (front strap is the worst).
Bore is only good - I call it early sewer pipe with strong rifling.

Grips appear to be original 3rd Reich rework replacements, correctly numbered with large numbers characteristic of the period. I believe the dished forward toggle axle is a correct Nazi rework part. (thanks Lugerdoc for explaining this to me).
Rear toggle rear axle is a correctly numbered Nazi rework part.

Here is where it gets interesting -

On the back of the frame is an "Eagle over mg10" stamp. The eagle has a broken wing.
All I could find out is this is a Nazi era acceptance stamp which is very rare on Lugers. I don't know what it means - machine gun unit?

The magazine is matching but has no suffix and an additional “75” stamp which I have not seen before - could this be from the last rework?

- Geo

Lots of pics below -

More pictures
 

Pictures of grips & mag.

Well, can't add any further comment, except that it is a very interesting and nice Luger with a lot of history in it.
And the gun is in remarkable shape and condition conidering its lenghty active duty.
Congratulations!
Douglas.

Geo:

Congrats…..wonderful Luger VERY RICH IN HISTORY…..I notice that the front grip strap has had some grinding where you would expect to find a unit mark. Suspect that the unit marking was in fact ground off.

Thanks for posting and pics.

Ron

Ron,

You know I didn't think of that - I just thought it was just really worn in front for some reason, but grinding off the unit marking makes a lot of sense.

- Geo

I noticed that and I'm not convinced it's just worn out in that rectangular area, but who knows, I'd like to examine that bit on a closer and more detailed picture.

Sergio

Just a little bit doubt on the erased stamp. I don't know how many different ways German erasing previous marks. But many examples showing they simply putting ----------- or XXXXXX over previous stamps, they did not care that way being beautiful or not (actually, beautiful from today's collectors viewpoint).

Totally erased.... then, a natural question: how do we know that's a unit mark, not an importer stamp?

Thought it again.

German applied stamps were usually very deep. To erase it, considerable amount of metals have to be removed. Importers, on the other hand, usually say "it's small, shallow, barely noticeable", etc. So, checking how much metal was removed could give a hint.

I think it would be odd place for an importer's mark, usually they are on the side or on the barrel, but it's certainly not impossible. But who would bother to grind off an import stamp on a such a worn gun?

Now that I look at it closely again, it actually looks like a repair. Like it was ground way down and then build up again with welding, but not refinished, just smoothed over and left bare. When I have some time I'll try to get a better close-up picture.

- Geo

I have a q suffix ( s/n 8683 I think) from the same period with "MG7" marked in the same area on the rear of the frame. My pistol is pictured in Weimar Lugers with the speculation that it was a machine gun training company. Regardless, it is a relatively rare marking and yours is only the third one I have heard of.
Lyn

Naaa, I don't think there was an importer's mark there.

OK. Let's wait close-up pictures. There are multiple possibilities.

Here are the close-ups of the front grip strap. If I run my finger over the area, I can feel the "white" area is raised up a little, like it was welded and ground back down. I tried to show that in the picture but it is difficult to capture. I am convinced it is a repair of some sort.

There is also a deep pit in the same area (only one). It does not look like it occurred naturally, as from rust, but rather from damage or a punch mark.

The repaired area is a similar shape and location as a unit marking. Why would someone grind off unit marking? Here is a crazy idea: Maybe the owner was ashamed of what they had done and tried to remove evidence of a unit they were with by grinding off the unit marks? Then they or someone else repaired the ground down area?

- Geo

Remove the grips and examine the frame from the inside. You may be able to see evidence from damage or marks from stamping.

Bob

Maybe the owner was ashamed of what they had done and tried to remove evidence of a unit they were with by grinding off the unit marks? Not even a possibility. During the time unit marks were applied..German Soldiers were extremely proud of their service in WW1 and very patriotic. They did not lose the war. It was an agreement by the powers that they quit. Of course Germany was on the short end of it and paid reparations but the Soldiers came home proud.

Jerry,
I appreciate what you are saying - I did say it was a crazy idea!

This may also be battle damage that was repaired at depot level.

That's more likely to me.

Finally got some time to take a couple pics of the inside - yes you can definitely see repaired damage on the inside. It looks like it was all the way through. Appears to be welded and then hit with a grinder. Repaired battle damage? - not the neatest repair job but I'll take it.

- Geo

Most battle damage comes from shell splinters. I once owned an MP44 that shot fine, but it was covered with small cuts and holes from splinter damage. Relic helmets you sometimes see online are good examples of this, as well.

It is not too far fetched to imagine a shell splinter hitting a gun sitting in a holster on someone's waist in battle.