Fake restoration
 

hopefully this is the right forum for this, but in regards to you fellas with restoration experience, or anyone that my know for that matter, how easy is it to fake stamps, serial # etc on lugers? example: i see quite a bit of lugers online and wonder to myself "thats neat that BOTH magazines are matching to that luger"...then my next thought is i wonder if its easy for some joe shmoe to just buy some cheap machine, stamp the right number and make a profit, because i know lugers can be faked as much as a 70 nova with an chevelle SS kit and it saddens me to be deterred from buying such a beautiful piece of history on a suspicious hunch alone. Am i being a little too extreme in my suspicion?

Caution!
 

No, you are being careful, and that sadly, that isn't enough...:eek:... You actually have to live and breath the tiny nuances of the particular variation you are interested in, whether it is a 1K pistol or a 10K unit .. So, it means you have to learn, or find someone you trust that will share their knowledge... That's why you pay 40% or more for an honest gun from a reputable collector.. he has assumed the, (sometimes severe) knowledge expense for you in advance... But, that being said, you are the final judge... I've been there and done that on all levels.... as they say, "It's a jungle out there!" :) best to you, til..lat'r...GT:cheers:

BTW, This is the right forum! The guys here are straight shooters all! I've never had an issue with any member of this forum..... Good luck to you in your quest!

Changing number on magazine bottom is the cheapest way to increase value of a Luger. Whenever find a Luger with matching magazine, especially two matching magazines, red flag should be up.

On pictures posted by Luger collector, original magazine bottom looks being cast aluminum. Nice ones are dull stain, not gloss at all. If the bottom is shiny, or have a feeling that something was cut, sanded, etc, that's very suspicious.

Alvin, yes, but you can buy shiny aluminum bottoms that are like that....

Justin, your observation is accurate, and the potential for faking and fraud is there in Lugers.

Volume of sales and slickness of appearance of websites is not a good indicator of honesty either. You will find very well presented fakes out there. And some are not at the higher end of values either.

What you are struggling with is accepting the need to study at "Luger University". This involves seeing real authentic firearms that are in original condition in person as well as studying the numerous collector books and guides. The books seem very expensive because they are often out of print, were made in shorter runs and are large and expensive to publish. They are, however, a wonderful investment because they can help you identify when something is correct, avoiding losses to the fakers and fraud sellers.

All this is difficult because it somewhat inhibits a casual interest in Lugers. Without the commitment to study, you are often anxious about any acquisition.

It helps to have friends, trusted sellers, a website community like this one and adequate time to evaluate new purchases. This is also why the no questions return inspection period is important on all acquisitions.

i once was challenged with acquiring a replacement part for a Simson Luger. These are literally made of "unobtainium". Scarcer than hens teeth. One parts "dealer" offtered to "make" me one by applying a fake inspection stamp. I'll never do business with that person. Eventually, a forum member here very generously made one available to me, for which I am ever grateful. You will thankfully find that integrity and generosity are personality traits of many Luger collectors.

Marc

Jshep:
There are other ways to determine authenticity on numbered magazines, such as correct acceptance markings AND the suffix behind the number. The actual numbers are apparently much easier to boost than is the suffix letter. Also magazine features tell the story of approx. when they were produced, such as tube style, material of the bottoms, etc. and will serve as a warning if they suggest a different date of manufacture than the gun shows.
Again, education is a key, and also buying from certain dealers who highly value their reputation can help you avoid a costly mistake.
However it does happen, as many forum members can attest. First-hand.
dju

thanks for all the insight, I've been loosely studying off and on for the past year and and its a lot to take in, but I'm hanging in there...

I'm a noobie, I've thought about a Luger for years but didn't really make an effort to educate myself on the pistol until recently. I have learned enough and seen enough out in the market to be very wary.

In a few weeks of seriously surveying what's available for my first Luger purchase, I've seen re-blues peddled as original, "matching" mags that were obvious force matches even to my novice eyes, and pistols with ground off stock lugs peddled as collector pieces without comment by dealers. I've seen plenty of over-priced pistols.

The answer for me is, don't buy it until you're sure that it is what you think it is. If you need to take pictures and post them on the forum before buying, then do so. The members here seem quite helpful.

At first i was annoyed at all the traps out there, but now I am starting to accept it as part of the "Luger Experience". It comes with the territory, if you want to acquire these fascinating machines from time to time, then knowledge and caution and patience are the tools you must accept and use. I have no "discoveries" yet, but I imagine finding a desirable pistol at a fair or good price out in the marketplace must be very satisfying.

Most matched magazines I see are fake or counterfeit.