What is it?
 

My dad gave me a luger and I don't know anything about it.I was wondering if anybody could help.

1.It has DWM on toggle

2.#28 German nitro on receiver above the locking bolt and another one "sideways" in front of the toggle knobs.

3.Has Gesichert on safety and Geladen on extractor.

4.Has wood checkerd grips and stock lug.Also has Germany stamped on back of gun

5.7.65 mil and serial #85000 range. Does serial# tell what year it was made?And I think it has a 3" barrel


Thanks

Earle

Re: What is it?
 

Probably what is commonly known as a 1923 Commercial and imported to US post WW1 in 1920-30s.

Re: What is it?
 

So it's basically just an average Luger.How much do they normally go for?

Re: What is it?
 

The five digit commercials were probably produced in the 1919/1920 time frame. Production of DWM Commercials was resumed around the 75,000 serial number range, and the horizontal C/U fits this time period. Early authors including Datig and Jones made the assumption that the five digit commercials were made from new parts and the letter suffix commercials were made from reworked military pistols. I have never seen an explaination of how they arrived at the 1923 date for these "new manufacture" pistols. Jan Still has a very interesting section of his "Weimar Lugers" devoted to the lastest information and thinking on this subject.

The largest part of the puzzle that is missing from the early authors thinking is that none of the DWM Commercials show up in the a thru h suffix range, but do show up in the i through s suffix range. Where did the military pistols in the a thru h suffix blocks go? The 1920 and 1921 dated DWM commercials show up in the ns, a, and b suffix blocks.

As the post war DWM Commercials approched the 100,000 serial number, it appears that DWM switched to the letter suffix military style numbering system rather than go to a six digit serial number. The letter suffix started in the i suffix block, right where it would have been had DWM started on day one on the Model 1900 using the number/letter serial numbering system on their commercial pistols.

One last thought on the theory that the 1920 Commercials were made from salvaged military pistols. Can you imagine the nightmare of trying to keep serial number records if the pistols used their old military serial numbers? Serial number records would have been a jumble of useless information.

Re: What is it?
 

If not pitted and perhaps at least 80% finish $400 up. The better the condition of course the more up!

Re: What is it?
 

Hi Folks!


Yes sir, a 1923 Commercial variation. Here are two more 1923 Commercials, currently FS on Auction Arms.


http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=2383412


http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=2386145


Best regards,


Kyrie

Re: What is it?
 

Hi Folks!


That the 1920 Commercial Lugers were made up from a mixture of new and old parts is not really a theory. Itâ??s an established truism based on the examination of many, many 1920 Commercials. And yes, this is found even in Stillâ??s â??Weimar Lugersâ?�


Regarding serial numbers, replacement parts were simply numbered to the serial number on the frame. No mess, no fuss, no confusion ;-)


Best regards,


Kyrie

Kyrie - One of them ain't a 23
 

Look again at item 2383412 that is listed as a 20 Commercial. Note the serial number range (73650) and the horizontal or "lazy" nitro proof on the receiver. It is a 1914 Commercial and considerably scarcer than the 20 and 23 commercials. In the condition advertised (99%) it is quite a bit more valuable than the current bid price. It is one of those "sleepers" that often goes unnoticed.

Re: Kyrie - One of them ain't a 23
 

Hi Ron,


I appreciate the â??heads upâ?�, but have to respectfully demure. Iâ??m old fashioned, and view the 1914 Commercials to be in the serial number range 71500 - 73500 and the 1923 Commercials to be in the serial number range 73500 - 96000. A serial number of 73650 would put this one, in my opinion, just into the range of a 1923 Commercial.


Itâ??s a pity this one is a mismatch, whichever variation it may be :-(


Best regards,


Kyrie

Re: Kyrie - One of them ain't a 23
 

Respect your point of view. I, on the other hand, believe that the 1914 Commercial serials go much closer to 75000. One aspect that supports this is the horizontal C/N. If it were a 20, the C/N would be vertical. Note also the â??longâ?� or unrelieved sear bar that does not follow the 1916 patent pattern (relieved to allow the action to be cycled with the safety on) that is invariably found on the 1920 Commercials. Even the Basil Police Lugers (still retaining the horizontal C/N) that were delivered in 1921 have the relieved sear bar. The observed Basil pieces have serial numbers starting near mid 75000. The piece in question has a serial of 73650, well below that range. Lastly, consider the caliber, 9mm. The Reichskomissarâ??s executive order of 4 September 1920, listed military weapons prohibited for civilian (commercial) use. This prohibition included barrels longer than 100mm and in 9mm caliber. This in effect resulted in 1920 commercial Lugers being produced with 3 5/8" barrels and in 7.65mm. This doesnâ??t mean that someone didnâ??t cheat and produce some 9mm. None the less, I stick by my opinion that this is a 1914 Commercial. Isnâ??t controversy great!

Re: Kyrie - One of them ain't a 23
 

The R.G. (Reichs-Gendarmerie) marked Lugers are found up into the very late 74,000 (74,722 recorded) range. This takes the 1914 Commercial right up to the 75,000 range.

Controversy is pronounced â??Lugerâ?� (EOM)
 

Re: Kyrie - One of them ain't a 23
 

You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion

Re: Kyrie - One of them ain't a 23
 

That the R.G. marked Lugers are found in the high 74,000 range is not my opinion.

Re: Kyrie - One of them ain't a 23
 

Johnny: I think Kyrie was responding to my post, not yours. Right Kyrie?

Re: Kyrie - One of them ain't a 23
 

The "In Response To:" has my name on it.