Need help to date an early Luger
 

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and I'm trying to find out some information for a Luger I recently came into possession of.

What strikes me most about this is the few markings on the pistol. The only markings on this pistol are as follows:

o The Toggle identification is DWM.
o The Serial Number is 66211 (matching) except magazine.
o Proof mark is a Crown and Letter N
o The number 11 on the bottom of the left side of the take down lever AND bottom of the trigger side plate AND on the rear Toggle link

This appears to be a model 1906. This gun has a 4 inch barrel, chambered in 7.65 and has a grip safety.

That's about all I can tell you about it unless you have any questions I can answer.

Can anyone help me to further identify it? Or tell me how to date it? I appreciate your help.

Lee

Hi Lee and welcome to the forum. Where are you located?

You have a commercial contract Luger (proofed and marked for commercial sale rather than military contract sale) with serial numbers stamped in the commercial fashion made in the 1906 pattern with grip safety.

With the lighting and soft focus of your first pictures, it's hard to judge if it's refinished. Is the small toggle axle retention pin (visible on the right in your second picture) in the white or blued?

Are slightly lightened "halos" visible around the stamped serial number on the bottom of the barrel?

Could we see the letters that have been cut into the right grip? Is this meaningful to you (someone's initials? a company name?)?

My first impression is that this pistol may have been professionally restored.

The frame profile is that of a pistol made after 1908 (Ron Wood's type "V" from Still's "Central Powers Pistols" appendix "B"). Likely made before 1914 when contract sales were halted. Post WW-I sales started up again at s/n 73,500 (Kenyon) so it was probably made in the early 1910s.

Although I don't recall the exact thread, letters exactly like those pictured, which are burned into the grips have been discussed here before. They do have a significance but I cannot find the reference.

I think that this was the thread:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...&highlight=FWB

According to Dwight, the unit came into existence in March, 1919 and was disbanded in April, 1920.

"EWB" a post WW-I Bavarian Militia.

Marc

First. Thank you both for your help. I am new to Lugers and this is a tremendous help.

I also apologize for my picture quality, all I have here is my EVO cell phone.

I am in Sarasota at the moment where the gun is.

To my knowledge this gun is in original condition and not restored, at least not since WWII when it was relieved from it's prior owner (as the story goes) on the battlefields of Europe. It was in one family since then and last fired in the early 1960's. This gun seems to be in almost pristine condition.

alanint, thanks for your notes on the EWB markings. We had only assumed they were a previous owners initials. I didn't think to look them up. I appreciate the heads up about them.

Mrerick, thank you for your assistance in identifying this piece. As to your questions.

The toggle retention pin seems to be in the white.

I don't see any "halos" about the serial number on the bottom side of the barrel. All cuts seem to be very crisp and sharp. There is very little where on this piece, almost liiks like it was never used. No holster wear is apparent either.

I am a little confused about something you posted. You said it was a commercial marking but the EWB indicates a military use. Were built for the commercial market and later used in the military?

Again thanks.

Lee

I don't think its been refinished... look at the fine machining marks on the middle toggle link and the area right above the right grip...if ANY sanding or buffing at all is done before a reblue, these are rubbed away......also if you look closely, the barrel serial haloes are obvious.

I agree. This is just one of those pristine examples that are out there and do turn up.

Hi Lee,
You stated that the barrel is 4" long. Are you measuring it from the muzzle to the breechblock? It is most likely 4 3/4".

I think that it is the exceptional condition and the flash / LED flash lighting that made me question the original finish. Glad to see consensus is that it's original.

It looks like the Bavarians setup a quasi-police unit after WW-I to act as a "home guard". There is a German language Wiki page about them that you can run through Google Translate at:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einwohnerwehr

http://translate.google.com/translat...FEinwohnerwehr


Marc

Wow. I really appreciate all this information. Alone I don't think I could have uncovered that much info. I understand there is also a 8 inch artillery model somewhere in the family. If it's in as pristine condition as this one it will be an exciting find.

This may not be the place to ask this but does anyone have an idea of what this pistol may be worth?

Mike,

I re-measured and the barrel length is 4 3/4 inches (to the breach block) and not 4 as previously stated. From what I read, all the 7.65caliber are 4 3/4. Thanks for the correction.

Lee

Lee,

I've only seen this kind of marking on military issued guns. As the family also owns an Artillery Luger I would consider as a hypothesis that the grips of both pistos had been switched in the past. Remove carefully the grips and check if there is any numbers or marks on the inner side. To add support to this idea, there are records of Artillery Lugers with such mark.

On the other hand, I learned to never say never in the collecting field: as the EWB was a militia organization it would be possible to have an originally private purchase pistol carried by one of its members and marked accordindly.

At last, but not the least, I think the gun is in original and pristine condition.

Welcome to the forum!

Douglas

So that would just be the right grip panel ? I wouldn't have thought the left grip from an artillery would fit a grip safety gun without considerable work ?

That's correct. It would be interesting to see the inner part of both grips.

Douglas

#60310 was made earlier than 1. June 1914.
Your nice Luger should be made in late 1914 or early 1915.