My Grandfather's Luger
 

Last weekend my Grandmother came to visit for my son's birthday and surprised me with this present: It belonged to my Grandfather who go it from his father-in-law. It's not in the greatest condition and is not the hot ticket for collectors, but this one will be mine for the duration.

The thing that has me concerned is several years ago I cleaned out his old ammo and brought home two boxes of old green and red boxed Remington in 30 Luger. There were empty cases with the live rounds and all the empties have a large bulge in the brass. It's almost like they were fired in a pistol with a wallowed out chamber. I thoroughly inspected the gun and aside from the worn finish and million-dollar chip, the gun is damage free.

This Luger is the only firearm Grandpa had in 30 Luger so part of me thinks the empties are from this gun. However, yesterday I fired three rounds from the same box and the empties all look normal. See picture: Outer L&R were fired yesterday. Inner two were in the box. Furthermore, I don't know how any pistol could produce such a casing and still extract it.

Anyway, I'm baffled. Has anyone seen this before or care to speculate.

Finally, all numbers match except for the hold open is one digit off. Anything could have happen since the early 20s, but is there any documented occurrence of a Luger leaving the factory this way?

I'm debating on having the chip fixed and putting the "correct" HO in, but right now, I'm leaning toward leaving it the way Grandpa left it.

if you fired the outer 2, you're fine.....who knows where the other ones came from, range pickups i'd guess...I would go over the gun with some oil and 0000 steel or brass wool

Possibly .30 caliber Luger fired in a 9mm gun? Interesting double stamped "Germany" on your gun...

Hi Matt,
The original holdopen was not numbered. It probably broke and was replaced with a numbered one.

Yeah, those bulges are huge... I have sure seen a lot of rough chambers, but never one that bulged the shells that bad.

Remember that bulges can also occur as extration is taking place. Cases are held in the chamber partially through heat adhesion. A round which is not delayed that microsecond through heat adhesion may be bulging as it is coming out of the chamber. Firing a 30 Luger in a 9mm chamber would cause a gas bubble behind the bullet at the area where the cartridge is necked down, forcing the round out of the chamber sooner than the complete burning of the propellant. If the case has left the support of the chamber walls an is still expanding as it extracts you will get these types of bulges.

Anybody want to try this out to see what happens? 8^)

That would make sense. The rim diameter is about the same on both calibers, and the bulge appears to be larger than any of those chambers would be. Unless it's a .45 Luger... ? :D

I see this often at the range when people attempt to fire .32 ACP in .380 ACP pistols.

I once watched a guy actually empty a whole magazine in a Walther PPK/S. He complained about the gun's accuracy, which I thought strange out of a quality pocket pistol like the Walther. It wasn't until I looked at his bulged spent brass that I realized he had managed to fire an entire magazine of .32 ACP in a .380 ACP pistol. Amazing that the pistol actually fed, fired and extracted 7 rounds of the undersized cartridge.

I think you may be on to something. I inspected each of the bulged cases and each one has a heavy primer strike that is offset toward the side with the bulge. If you compare the normal casing in the upper right that I fired Saturday with a bulged casing, you'll see. If it is a case of the wrong ammo in the wrong gun, I don't know which gun would allow a 30 Luger to feed, fire, and eject, but whoever and whatever it was, the seven empties suggests they also got through a full mag.

If you fired three and they look normal, what is the problem? I don't understand, you didn't fire these. Can I politely ask you....... Do you like to worry? Don't, it isn't healthy. And if you think it isn't something a collector would want, I'll take it. A Luger is a Luger in my book, ALso it was free , I would be in my glory if someone gave me a free Luger. thus not be worried about cases that you don't even know where they came from.
as far as a 380 firing a .32acp, that is easy, the case is the exact same height, the RIM of the .380 is only a 3/10th's of a mm thicker than the .32 not much, SO IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME.

What does surprise me is people eating ketchup on HotDog's. No one, I mean no one, eats ketchup on a hot dog.,,,,,,,,,

Actually scientists are now saying that worry is good for you.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...r-1668202.html

That's good news for the many Americans who chose to live above their means in recent years. 100% of the fingers on my shooting hand also agree that a three round test might not be enough in this case. When taking possession of an unknown firearm and finding some abnormal casings in with the live rounds, I believe some level of due diligence is necessary. Part of that includes asking experts if they have seen similar results and "thinking out loud" to illuminate possible explanations.

While there is a buyer for every Luger, an Alphabet isn't a rare model sought by collectors. It is, however, the only Luger my Grandfather had and the only one he left to me when he died and while I did not pay for this pistol, it was not free.

Mayonnaise and sweet relish on mine, thanks.

Ok, Callahan....

A round which is not delayed that microsecond through heat adhesion may be bulging as it is coming out of the chamber. Firing a 30 Luger in a 9mm chamber would cause a gas bubble behind the bullet at the area where the cartridge is necked down, forcing the round out of the chamber sooner than the complete burning of the propellant

No offense, but I have trouble believing that, I've seen P08's with 16" barrels, which (It seemeth to me) should have more left over pressure than a normal or 6" barrelled gun, although it's also possible that the gas expansion down a 16" barrel might be enough of a drop in pressure to keep cases from bulging. The unknown, for me, is how much pressure remains from a .30 Luger round at the moment the action begins extraction (The actual releasing of the locking). The cartridge cannot come out until that moment. I hope I didn't come across too harshly, I've been too wrong too many timer to think I'm always right. Either that or you are describing something else?
It looks to me like range brass that someone fired in a 9MM chamber, I'm guilty of that myself! I bought a CZ 24 once, I couldn't get .380 rounds in the mag and (Silly me.) I assumed that they must have made some CZ 24's in .32, a whole magazine and I can barely keep the rounds on the target at 10 feet! I look at the cases at my feet and they looked like that, turns out the former owner sent me a magazine from one of his CZ 27's. Went right over my head to check the chamber and exit bunghole. The magazine fit perfectly of course.

My guess is that the bulged cases were fired in another 9mm Luger belonging to a friend or an acquaintance. Or perhaps your grandpa owned a 9mm Luger, thought it was defective, and got rid of it.

Exactly what I have been saying all along.

I'd say don't sweat it. Clean, lube and inspect the gun, then go to the range. Wear your eye and ear protection as always and shoot the correct ammo. Maybe check each fired case for signs of problems until you get tireed of that.
I bought an artillery Luger with a clearly bulged barrel. Shoots very well...
dju

If a 30 Luger was fired in a 9mm, I'd expect at most the neck to be bulged since the 30 case is basically the same diameter as the 9 from the neck back. These cases are bulged LARGER than a 9mm. The case is bulged to .410, while a 9mm is in the .380 neighborhood. The primer strike is .220 from the edge of the rim. Assuming the firing pin of whatever gun fired these was centered, that would make the caliber around .440.

My Grandfather had a 1917 Colt that was .45, but I can't imagine mistaking a 30 Luger for a 45 ACP.

It's hard to say what happened, but the CSI treatment is fun.

Since we will throw the doors of all speculation open. I Don't know if it would work because I've never tried it, but maybe someone tried .30 Luger in a Broomhandle .30 Mauser?

Yes, I have. About 20 years ago, I wanted a stainless steel 45 cal Gov't Model. At a gun show I found a used AMT 45 in stainless for [IIRC] $275...I offered $250 and we ended up splitting the difference...

When I fired it, the cases looked just like yours [bulged]. The chamber was cut oversize. How, I don't know. It was offset slightly as well. It was the original AMT barrel, and I thought I'd just replace the barrel with a carbon steel Colt barrel. I ended up trading it for something else before I could get around to it...

Point is, there are barrels with oversize chambers. The how is the mystery...

(I think AMT called it the 'Hardballer'...)