1933 Erfurt
 

Can you give me any details on this Luger. It is a recent inheritance that was most likely a WWII bring-back.

There are eagle and castle proofs that I don't know the proper designations for. It appears to be all matching numbers. What condition would this be considered?

Welcome to the forum!

Although your gun's numbers all seem to be the same, your gun is a mismatch, as Erfurt produced no Lugers after 1918. A clear photo of the front of your frame would help considerably, as this would tell us if the frame is Erfurt. The area just above the trigger guard seems very odd in profile and may have been ground down or otherwise modified. Please also photograph the proofs on the pistol's right side just behind the barrel. The "K I" above the chamber date is interesting and members with knowledge of this marking will, I'm sure, comment on this.
Your holster looks like a Police model, which has been modified back into a military configuration, which may give a clue as to the pistol's origin. Photos of all the markings on the holster would also help in supplying you with more information.

Looks like there is a C/U proof on the Right of the receiver. Can't make out the other one(s)...

Marc

Hi Solothurn,
Welcome to the forum. All Erfurt lugers are military. I think this may possibly be an all matching Erfurt that has had the date scrubbed and the Ki/1933 added. The Ki supposedly stands for Kadette Institute. There is a DWM with the same stamp on the James Julia auction site. The desciption states that the stamp was recently added.
http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/div_....asp?pageREQ=1
(Lot #1122)

As I mentioned to you in a private message, the book 'Weimar Lugers' has a description of this luger with possible explainations of its use and origin. As to your questions on condition, just good condition for a well used luger. David

As a matter of general interest, the holster was never a Police holster. It started life as an Artillery and was converted, post war, to P08 military configuration. The original thread holes for the cleaning rod sheath are clearly visible in the photo. Regards, Norm

1933 Erfurt- More Pics
 

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The KI 1933 has received a lot of comments over the years, and you find many Erfurts with this marking.

What the KI stands for is unknown, many people feel it means Kadeten Institute (sp) or was for concentration camps. The concentration camp has pretty much been discarded, the other is in discussion.


Ed

The shallow tangent sight notch at the front of the chamber supports this.

Is there any sign that the surface beneath the date has been taken down a bit? Contour followed and smooth? Any faint printing underneath the date?
dju

Due to the lack of full military inspection markings on the right receiver, I believe that this was built up from left over unused WW1 parts (perhaps by Mauser, if that's an E/63 inspecion stamp that I see) in 1933 as a military special contract for either the KI or KL depending on which theory you want to accept. TH

It does not look to have been ground down. The contour looks correct. No sign of printing underneath the date.

Does that support the built from left-over parts in 1933 theory?

The LugerDoc has forgotten more on this subject than I will ever know. I defer to his judgement/experience.
dju

The tangent sight notch looks very shallow and narrow as it would if material had been taken off the top of the chamber.

Also the scallops that should be on each side of the receiver have been ground down.

I have also seen some of these that are reworks of WW1 military issued pistols, so that may also be the case with this one, although it is not fully military inspected, as one would expect. TH

The KI./1933 Lugers are described in word and picture on pages 207-208, and 247 -248 of Weimar Lugers (1993). They are crude reworks assembled from various parts and can be found with DWM, ERFURT, or SIMSON & CO / SUHL middle toggle links (page 247). While there are several theories as to their origon, their use is yet to be established.
Jan

Thanks so much for your input Jan... we are blessed to have you pop in on us on occasions like this post. :)

John
Happy to participate.
Jan

Thanks, gents. I've learned a lot since my first post