Is this seller's description reasonable ?
 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...=236665170#PIC

Seems to have several non-sequitur contradictory conclusions.

There was a batch of lugers that were ordered by the dutch and then were not delivered; you'd have to look up the serial range to know if this is one of them.

The mismatch toggle comment makes no sense to me.


Ed

That seller has been the subject of much discussion on this & several other forums...Mostly concerning the descriptions and prices... :rolleyes:

They seem to have a large selection of 'fix-er-uppers'/parts guns...

You'd think that an outfit which deals so many guns on an internet auction site would post pictures which are in focus, properly lit, and show important details of the piece both assembled and dissasembled.

Poor qulaity photos always make me hit the "back" button.

Regards,
Doug

The extractor marked on both sides is likely just a replacement part as this seems to be the only Dutch contract part of this gun. Photos of the safety in the upper position by the seller to hide the fact that the safety is not marked safe in Dutch as "Rust" instead of "Gesichert" is just unacceptable. I think the seller also has the suffix "n" wrong as I cannot locate any Mauser Banners with an "n" suffix range listed in my reference guides.

Mauser Banner Dutch Navy contract pistols would be in the 2130-2654 v suffix range. Additionally, serial #'s 2655v-3254v should be the guns that didn't make it to the Netherlands, but the safety would have still been marked "RUST". Corrections welcome here! VLIM?

In addition to the double marked extractor and the "Rust" safety, my Mauser Banner Dutch Navy, one of 224 made in 1939, is marked "KM" on the front grip strap.

Clark

I am extremely far from being even knowledgeable concerning spotting questionable Lugers. However, every time I read an ad by this seller (Jack) it gives me shivers due to the total Bullspit in type. Personally. I am disappointed in Gunbroker for not policing these sellers with wild unsubstantiated claims, assumptions and innuendos.

I stay away from this company.

reality check
 

Came across this one the other night.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=236418263

I emailed:

"I am interested in this Luger. Your listing describes it in part: "There is
no rust or pitting on the metal and the bore is very good." However, either
that description is incorrect, or you have posted incorrect photos of the
gun. I see what appears to be rust on the grip straps, and if there isn't a
big honking pair of pits on the side plate, I'll eat my hat! Rusty looking
barrel, too... If it's the photos, re-shoot them.
If you can get your photos to match the description, I'd take a chance on
this one. If you're selling it without an inspection period, I would bid
$1k--after your permission, of course, because it would be my first G.B.
purchase."...

He responded:

"$1000.00?
Don't waste my time."

Uh-oh, I had apparently insulted him with my opening bid. so wrote back:

"You misunderstand.

1 Grand, based on this ad, these pics, and no inspection period. I'd entertain way more, but this is like buying a pig in a poke, please understand.

I have no idea what your reserve is, but I am not surprised that it is not met by the current bid. The gun is worth quite a bit more. Just how much more is determined by its condition. The condition you describe is not borne out by your listing. Bottom line.

You say all the numbers match, let's see the thing taken down and documented. You say no rust or pits, let's see pics that don't make it look rusty and pitty. I don't mean to be argumentative, just informing you of what my issues are with this piece.

It seems like everybody that tries to sell a luger thinks it is rare and worth a fortune. Are you a member of the Lugerforum.org? Sign up, submit comprehensive photos, and get some pricing advice from guys who know Lugers inside and out, if you're going to be selling Lugers or Luger stuff.

I have plenty to learn about Lugers, but have foremost studied the market for several months straight to determine what's what with how much I should pay for a Luger these days. I'm certainly in the low end of the market, with a budget up to 2k for this purchase. Assuming your Luger is "correct", it would, in my estimation, definitely fall within this limit. If we're not close after this, then let me know, and I will respectfully fade into the sunset in due course.

Thank you again for your patience."

And, gosh, I never heard back. So now I'm wondering about how I handled the whole thing. It was an inadequate listing, no? The photos were bad, no? The guy was unwilling to work with me at all, no? Bottom line is that what would have been my initial bid was not even reached by anyone else, and he did not sell his gun! I'm annoyed by his accusation that I was wasting his time, particularly because it was he who wound up wasting my time. If the description had been accurate, was my ballpark of $2k that far off?!

These past few months of intense study of Lugers and their market have reinforced my realization that I'm new to the area and still know very little despite being a relatively quick study when I'm motivated. My intent now is just stop thinking about this one, let it go, and move on to a purchase where I'm not given such a hard time, but since I'm new to acquiring a Luger, I'm posting this to see if my GB etiquette can be improved. Please share your thoughts about the gun, the listing, or my approach.

Moderators, I do not mean to hijack this post. I was prompted to write it by the similarities of these listings, as far as bad pics, etc. I realize this is the usual fare from GB. I'm getting tired of nasty uninformative pics, too.

David Parker

(.com, not .org)

It is unfortunate that many sellers are misleading. I have a real problem when I feel that it is intentional, either through omitting obvious information or through plain BullSpit, as in these instances. When I first started collecting I was burned several times this way.

I'd like to point out, though not the case in these examples, Lugers have many variations and obviously are very complex, and it is also very common that someone just doesn't know the truth, are spouting what their uncle or someone at a gunshop told them, and/or is just understandably incapable of accurately describing what they are selling. One common example that comes to mind is saying a gun is all-matching, and it turns out the replaced barrel has no serial number at all so technically all of the numbers that were there matched. On 1900's, it irritates me when no photos are provided of the safety in the upward position such that the polished area is displayed.

I don't think David hijacked the post (w due respect to moderators), just provided a second example.

I think this is a great post for the "New Collectors" area as a great big warning. I think most of us welcome the opportunity to assist those making a purchase by pointing out potential pitfalls or errors in the listings, (as well as pointing out some good things about the items!). I've been collecting and studying for quite a while now, and I still beg the opinions of the experts before I make most purchases!!!

Clark

I have had one experience with the seller (in the original post).

Sbout 3 years ago they purchased a slotted/tangent Hi Power from me at SOS. I had it priced for what it as. Later I saw it on GB for about 4 times the price I sold it to them for. When they saw it, they did not ask any questions etc, just grabbed the pistol and gave me cash and a license.

Their description was totally wrong in regard to the Hi Power.

I am not sure if it sold as I stopped watching it after the 3rd or 4th listing.

Lot of times I think that the problem is that there are so many pistols, so many lugers, etc. with small differences or nuances that someone can easily make a mistake. (And a few times, people are just crooks.)

When I need a good laugh, sometimes I surf the North Korean News website and then the Jackson Armory site, and try to decide who the bigger BS artists are......

The last batch of Dutch lugers that didn't make it to the Netherlands was a batch of P08 style Mauser pistols for the Dutch navy. These had all the Dutch hall marks, including the 'Rust' marking, but were rerouted to the Wehrmacht in May, 1940, when Germany invaded the Netherlands. So they are completely Dutch, but with German army acceptance markings added. This 1937 parts gun isn't one of them :)